Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

Conversion and EU4 rules discussion thread Options · View
King of Men
Posted: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 9:06:45 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
I've had a look at my converter; as usual it will need some tweaks. I've fixed the crashbug in the converter itself - turns out war names are no longer unique in our mod - but will need some more work to get a working save.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:35:30 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
Having problems: The save is not showing any country information even when I don't actually do any conversion processes, just parse the EU4 file and print it out again. Apparently the latest Paradox anti-user-conversion thing is to make whitespace matter, or something horrible like that? Or I'm going nuts. Trying to print things in the same format Paradox uses and see if that helps.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 5:50:34 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
Aaaah! Aaah! Aah! Who, who, who thought this was a good idea?! Fire them! Twitter campaign! Negative Steam reviews until this abomination is removed from the savegames!

Code:

map_area_data{
}


Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 6:06:18 AM
 Lieutenant General


Joined: 8/25/2014
Posts: 2,143
What does it do?
King of Men
Posted: Friday, December 15, 2017 6:22:16 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
It doesn't parse. Because my parser relies on there being an equals sign between the key and the open-brace, as has been the excellent custom of the Paradox savegame format for fifteen years.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 4:22:48 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
Time to finish these EU4 rules. This is a fairly final draft, combining Dragoon's ideas and mine. If you have any feedback, this is a good week to mention it.

1. Wars

1.1 War types

Wars may be Total, Limited, or Colonial. A total war is fought by the usual rules of EU4: Any CB may be used, peace treaties are unlimited, both sides may call their allies. A limited war, on the other hand, has several limitations:

  • It must be declared publicly beforehand; ideally on the forums, but at a minimum in game chat.
  • The war must have a single defender, who may not call allies.
  • The defender must be at peace at the time of the declaration, and may not be DOWed by anyone else until the war is over.
  • The attackers and defender must be identified. The attackers may not have more than 110% of the total development of the defender. Both totals include vassals, colonial nations, marches, and other dependencies, but not AI allies, because AI gonna AI. However, in extreme cases (such as one 100-dev nation allying a 500-dev AI before attacking another 100-dev nation) the war will be disallowed.
  • Nobody except the initial attackers and defender can fight in the war; this includes declaring separate wars, fighting rebels, and sending Condottieri. Subsidies are allowed.
  • The war must be actively prosecuted; if after three years neither side has 10% warscore, or if the war otherwise looks fake (for example, stuck at 11% warscore for a an extended period), it must be white-peaced. If this happens repeatedly the offending parties will be forbidden from declaring limited wars.
  • The peace treaty of a limited war may not cause provinces to change hands, except for return of cores and release of vassals.

    A colonial war is fought for distant overseas objectives; for example European nations may declare colonial war for American, Asian, Oceanian, or Sub-Saharan territory. (The Med shore of Africa does not count; neither does the Levant. ) In such a war the homelands of the belligerents are off limits, except that they may be blockaded (and raided, but you can do that in peacetime anyway). The peace may only transfer territory, release vassals, cancel cores, or annul treaties in the target region.

    1.2 War rules

    The following apply to all kinds of wars.

  • No attacking player countries currently AId. You may finish wars you started while the player was present; however, do not attack a player five minutes before the end of the session if you know he's going to be absent next week. AI protection expires after two sessions (whole or partial) of absence. Example: I ragequit halfway through the session on the 1st; I'm AI-protected for the rest of that session and for the 8th; my country is fair game on the 15th if nobody has picked it up.
  • Terms must be given upon request, pausing if necessary. You are highly encouraged to work out your terms beforehand. The player asking for terms may be compensated for losses that occur between the request and the answer, with damages from the offending player or players.
  • No offensive truce breaking. You may however join as a defender, even if you have a truce with the attacker.
  • Fight the dang war. If you join a war, you're expected to send troops to the front. Repeated bad faith may result in sanctions.
  • No dragging out wars beyond the point where you can get what you came for.
  • You may deploy at most 25% (roughly speaking) of your army force limit overseas - that is, in other continents, as defined above for colonial wars.
  • You may not raid, privateer against, fund rebels of, or create spy networks in nations that have enforced a Humiliate peace upon you, until the humiliation expires ten years after the peace (or if you are at war with them).

    2. Playable area

    Most of the world will initially be off-limits to colonisation and conquest, and will open up at the start of particular sessions (except that some regions, e.g. in Central Africa, may not be opened until Victoria). Asia will only be open to players in the event that we get at least four players there, and if the number drops to two through people quitting, those two may be required to move; similar restrictions apply to India, Persia, and Africa. If Asia has players, Ming will be exploded, otherwise it will be left intact. Specific dates are TBD, but will probably roughly follow Dragoon's map.

    The initial playable area will not shrink from CK; nobody will be required to give up territory in the conversion.

    3. Conversion auction

    3.1 Idea sets

    There will be 24 idea sets, expandable to 36 if by some miracle we get more than twenty players. There will be a call for volunteers to make 13 idea sets each; these should be balanced roughly as they were in the previous iteration (indeed I have no objection to recycling some of those sets), with about 300 points from the custom nation creator, but not using the maximum human skill to min-max those 300 points. No Space Marines, please. Each volunteer will get an AAR reward; two if all 26 ideas end up created by the same person. Each volunteer may veto one set from the other player's submissions; if there is only one volunteer vetoes will be done by popular acclaim and GM fiat instead. If the creators choose, they may make tiered ideas, e.g. a strong Viking set and a weaker Pirate-Ninja set with a similar theme.

    3.2 The HRE

    Three HRE slots will be auctioned at the same time; highest three bidders become HRE members, each one paying the bid below him, and the highest bidder is the initial Emperor. All nations converting from the same dynasty as an HRE player will become HRE members, as well as any AI nations that make prettier Empire borders and aren't of a non-HRE player dynasty. However, if there aren't at least two bidders, there won't be an HRE at all.

    Note: I'm not totally sure how this will work with pagans; we'll do our best to mod it so pagans can coexist with Christians within the empire. If that turns out to be impossible, then pagans will have to either have a majority of the three slots to make a pagan HRE (only possible if Blayne and Ranger cooperate), or else not be HRE members. In this case winning bids that can't join the empire will be refunded. If there is no religious majority (e.g., the winners are Christian, Norse, and Hellenic) there will be no Empire.

    3.3 Same-dynasty kingdoms

    Apart from giving score, and joining the HRE as outlined above, these won't be treated specially.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
  • Yami-Yagari
    Posted: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 2:56:29 PM
     Generalmajor


    Joined: 1/16/2014
    Posts: 1,146
    Limited wars are sounding overly complicated at this point. You're probably better off limiting the amount of belligerents per war; ie 1 player ally on both sides.
    King of Men
    Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 12:44:15 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    That has the failure mode of two GPs declaring a "limited" war against the smallest player in the game, who is free to take whatever ally he can find.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    Yami-Yagari
    Posted: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 6:04:37 AM
     Generalmajor


    Joined: 1/16/2014
    Posts: 1,146
    The problem im expecting though, is that the many provisions to this concept is going to make actually enforcing it a nightmare.

    No disrespect intended, but even now we have difficulty enforcing what rules we have for Ck2. You can't be expected, as player and GM, to have to micro manage several of these limited wars at once.

    EDIT: I've been on the raw end of that scenario, so I agree with you on that. But if we want tot safeguard non gps from GPs, just ban GP players from declaring war on non GP players (with exception of colonial wars).
    King of Men
    Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 12:15:21 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Quote:
    safeguard non gps from GPs


    Well, that's not the purpose of the limited-war rule. Limited wars are intended to make it possible to have one-on-ones without triggering a vast alliance war, and to have coalition wars against a hegemon without, again without triggering a humongous alliance, and without necessarily reducing the hegemon to a minor. Non-GPs wanting protection against a GP will still have to find allies for the purpose, since the GP can always declare a total war on them. It's true that the rules are a bit complex, but I think it's a necessary complexity.

    It would be great if we could mod in a "Limited War" CB, that auto-enforced at least the peace rules. I'll have a look and see if it's possible.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Thursday, January 04, 2018 2:55:51 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Something like this would help a bit:

    Code:

    cb_limited_war = {
        valid_for_subject = no

        prerequisites = {
            NOT = {
                truce_with = FROM
                            is_at_war = yes
                           ai = yes
            }
                    FROM = {
                      ai = no
                    }
        }
            po_demand_provinces = no
        war_goal = humiliate_rotw
    }


    Still need to manually check the dev, but it would enforce the peace terms and you can see at a glance in the game interface that it's a limited war. Could maybe even add some events to enforce the three-year thing? Needs testing, however.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    fasquardon
    Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 2:45:41 AM
     Admiral

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 3/13/2008
    Posts: 2,439
    So are you about to start EUIV? Or is it some weeks/months away yet?

    I ask because I finally am in a position to join the game.

    fasquardon

    Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

    Tyrannos of the Second Republic of Rome, High Speaker of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in And Rumors of War
    King of Men
    Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 6:55:59 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Oh hey fasq! We would love to have you.

    So our current arrangement is that we vote on whether to convert, first vote at the end of the session containing 969, then every fifty years thereafter. Unless we have really serious technical issues, there will be a vote on converting after the session this Sunday. But as for which way it will go, who knows?

    However, why not join us in CK2? With the realm-size limit, we have not split the map between a few Great Powers; there's still room for a new player in the Balkans or indeed in southern France, or even Germany; or Kiev or Egypt - in short, plenty of room. Smile

    By the way we're on Discord now; do you have an account? I'll send you an invite.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    fasquardon
    Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 4:08:23 PM
     Admiral

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 3/13/2008
    Posts: 2,439
    King of Men wrote:
    Oh hey fasq! We would love to have you.

    So our current arrangement is that we vote on whether to convert, first vote at the end of the session containing 969, then every fifty years thereafter. Unless we have really serious technical issues, there will be a vote on converting after the session this Sunday. But as for which way it will go, who knows?

    However, why not join us in CK2? With the realm-size limit, we have not split the map between a few Great Powers; there's still room for a new player in the Balkans or indeed in southern France, or even Germany; or Kiev or Egypt - in short, plenty of room. Smile

    By the way we're on Discord now; do you have an account? I'll send you an invite.


    Starting somewhere in Russia/Lithuania sounds good.

    How long are sessions though? You start later than I can remembered and if it is a 4 hour session I won't be able to join as I only have 3 hours free after 9am PDT.

    And yes, I have a Discord account.

    fasquardon

    Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

    Tyrannos of the Second Republic of Rome, High Speaker of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in And Rumors of War
    King of Men
    Posted: Friday, January 05, 2018 8:58:30 PM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Quote:
    You start later than I remembered


    Alas, we do play 4-hour sessions starting at 0900 Pacific time. Sad It's been like that for a long time, though. Confused

    Sent you the Discord invite anyway.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 7:48:49 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    So I've experimented a bit with modding, and if we add this to cb_types:

    Code:
    cb_limited_war = {
        valid_for_subject = no

        prerequisites = {
            FROM = {
              is_subject = no
              is_at_war = no
              ai = no
            }
            ai = no
        }

        war_goal = limited_war_victory
    }


    and this to wargoal_types:

    Code:
    limited_war_victory = {
        type = superiority

        badboy_factor = 1
        prestige_factor = 1
        peace_cost_factor = 1

        allowed_provinces = {
            is_core = ROOT
            previous_owner = ROOT
        }

        peace_options = {
            po_demand_provinces
            po_revoke_cores
            po_release_vassals
            po_release_annexed
            po_gold
            po_concede_defeat
            po_annul_treaties
            po_revoke_elector
            po_trade_power
            po_humiliate
            po_enforce_rebel_demands
        }

        war_name = LIMITED_WAR_NAME
    }


    that should somewhat help. Still need to do the dev-tracking manually, but at least it will be visually clear what's a limited war and what isn't. I'm not sure the wargoal province limitation applies to peace demands, so it may be necessary to pay some attention to that. Still, better than nothing.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    Vaniver
    Posted: Saturday, January 27, 2018 7:14:53 AM
     Lieutenant Colonel


    Joined: 1/19/2014
    Posts: 662
    Here's an event that adds a province modifier that shuts down provinces until a specified time. The event needs to be manually triggered in single-player with:

    Code:
    event sotd.1

    File Attachment(s):
    sotd2.7z (1kb) downloaded 7 time(s).


    King of Men
    Posted: Monday, January 29, 2018 8:06:28 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Nice work, Vaniver. Could you add a similar modifier for Indian, Persian, Russian trade regions? Doesn't need to have an ingame effect, just to make it visually clear what's off-limits and not.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Monday, January 29, 2018 8:55:38 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Vaniver suggested that people with extra idea sets could be allowed to give them to AI countries, possibly limited to AI countries of their own dynasty. I like this idea; any objections?

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 7:34:54 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    EU4 rules thread updated with full auction rules and idea groups.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    Users browsing this topic
    Guest


    Forum Jump
    You cannot post new topics in this forum.
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
    You cannot create polls in this forum.
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

    Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
    Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
    Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.