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Eu4-Victoria 2 Take II Options · View
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, February 02, 2018 1:35:43 AM
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The Last time we had this discussion the game sort of Ended Beforehand. This is the New Thread, Made as Requested.
King of Men
Posted: Friday, February 02, 2018 5:58:50 AM
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So point one, Idhrendur's Victoria converter is broken for 1.24 and subsequent patches, due to the same infuriating format violation I was complaining about when I started the update for Cradle of Civilisation. I can probably make it work in my own dev environment, but it'll take a bit of time.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Friday, February 02, 2018 7:00:00 PM
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King of Men wrote:
So point one, Idhrendur's Victoria converter is broken for 1.24 and subsequent patches, due to the same infuriating format violation I was complaining about when I started the update for Cradle of Civilisation. I can probably make it work in my own dev environment, but it'll take a bit of time.


Don't forget to make a fork and update his code too. ^_^ Sharing is caring!

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, February 02, 2018 7:04:36 PM
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I mean presumably were going to be in victoria at the end of this year, so thats plenty of time.
King of Men
Posted: Saturday, February 03, 2018 6:43:17 AM
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The Professor wrote:
Don't forget to make a fork and update his code too. ^_^ Sharing is caring!


Actually Idhrendur already wrote the code, but it didn't get into a release because the guy who took over that converter has disappeared. So it's a question of making it compile on my desktop, not writing new code.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 3:38:53 AM
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Alright as promised in the discord heres the thoughts I've been working on for Vicky.

Note these are suggestions and ideas, not rulings


Conversion from Eu4

Uncolonized Territory:
To Save on unnecessary border gore, Australia's uncolonized provinces will be manually colonized based on who controls the wasteland in Eu4. If no player controls the wasteland, it wont be touched.

African and Indonesian Minors, as well as any Natives in America or India that somehow survived will be made uncivilized at the start and may conquered by anyone from the word go.

Springtime of Nations
All non primarycultures with majority control or at least a significant minority in over 4 or more states will receive a tag and cores on those states. IE, If Dutch is the majority culture in all of the lowlands, The Netherlands will receive cores on those states. To specify which cultures qualify, the Latin Empire as of 1530 accepts Greek but is primarily Italian, Greek will convert with greek cores, Italian will not.

Cultures will only be accepted by monarchies if their influence at the end of eu4 and start of v2 is 40% or more. For Republics, this number is 30% or more. Mamluk government counts a republic for this rule.

Cultures such as greek and turkish will have their special modifiers that allows them to revolt more, removed.

Union tags will be left in the game as normal with special rules. Note: this means the Restore Order CB is live and a ticking time bomb, keep well aware of whos cultures you have cored

Score
Nations will be ranked in prestige based on their score in Eu4, with a factor applied to keep the number vanilla esq (Great Britain has 10,000 Score in Eu4, It'll have maybe 100 or so in Vicky) This is independent of any uses for score during the conversion.

Score in Eu4 will be used to buy Literacy, Spheres, starting reforms starting techs and change party stances or overflow to hearts of iron 4.

Literacy: Every nation is entitled to 5% literacy, A point of literacy costs say 100 and the cost doubles for each point. So 100, 200, 400. These numbers may be suspect to change when we see what the final eu4 scores look like.

Spheres: You may pay score to start off a nation within your sphere of influence. If two nations want the same secondary power, the sphere is assigned in order of global placement. The cost of the nation is thier score value.
Yes, This does mean that if you sold your victory cards to someone or you have been utterly crushed and your score ripped from your hands and you converted with Negative score, you will be sphered for free. representing your passive/defeated status in the world
Starting Reforms: Voting Franchise is determined by Government, Slavery by weather or not you took the decision in eu4. However you can pay 1000 (Number subject to change) to change any political reform in your country up or down one step.

Starting Techs: All nations will start with the same techs in everything(The 1820 techs basically). You can pay 2000 or so Score to buy one of the 1836 technologies early to get a leg up on your opponents and save you research points.

Change Party Stances: You can pay 1000 to change any stance of a particular party up or down one level in liberalism. (For those who don't know, the Scale for Moralism in V2 is Moralism, Pluralism, Secularism, Atheism)

Overflow: Points not spent will go into points for Hearts of Iron 4. A factor will be applied to the points so they are roughly of equal worth to the points gained in Victoria.


Balance Changes and Rule suggestions


Governments:

First off, Removal of the choose ruling party feature from HM's government, and the allowance of Socialist parties to be represented within them
Expansion of Prussian Constitutionalism (Also known as limited constitutionalism) to include weighted wealth and wealth.
Absolute Monarchy allowed to Enact and Revoke reforms at will after 1890's the same way Fascist Dictatorships can.
Ideology
Fascists: No Fascists before the first World War (Not Great War, there's a distinction now). To be allowed to become a fascist dictatorship, you must either have lost a war, Be a secondary power or have high revanchism.
Communists: Proposal of repeatable decision called 'Red Scare' that allows great powers to lower the militancy of all communist pops in their country at the cost of a huge amount prestige. (To help deal with communist rebel spam late in the game)
Liberals: A repeatable decision for all nations with universal voting, identical to Red Scare except instead of communist militancy, its Anarcho Liberals.

These rules should prevent literally the entire world turning fascist and help limit the commie and anarchist rebel spam that can plague some nations late game. Emphasis here is making great powers stable so they can play games of global domination against each other, not play whackamole.

Diplomacy

All Great Powers Must be in agreement of Peace Deal terms on both sides before they are accepted. For Great Wars and World Wars, the game may be paused for a maximum of thirty minutes for Peace Talks. This time can be extended upon agreement from the rest of the players both in and outside the war.

State concession demands should be reasonable. No enclaves or taking large swathes of someones core region for no reason besides removing their industrial capacity or crippling them.

Single provinces may be demanded in peace deals. They cost the same as a state in warscore and infamy cost, so just add the state as a wargoal and the remainder of the provinces can be edited around as you wish once peace is achieved.

Spheres and GP allies: You can only ally nations in your sphere or your sphere leader, Great Powers can only have one Great Power alliance. This rule ends when Great Wars Unlock.

International Intervention: Any legitimate war containing two or more great powers cannot be tampered with provided the total military scores of both sides are roughly equal. (within 300ish point, number subject to change). This war comes into effect after initial sides for a war are drawn up, and ends once great wars unlock.

No going over the infamy limit.

Nations representing accepted cultures cannot be released until great wars are unlocked. (IE Germany accepts Polish, Poland cant be released until great wars)

Crown from the Gutter type events cannot be accepted. Nations are however allowed to Form Union Tags.

If a player is 'killed' via such an action they have several options:
1. Force the release of a new nation that controls all the not-union cultured lands of the annexed tag. (North China annexes south China, South China demands all of the Indochinese and Indian land he owned is released and formed into a new nation)

2. Become a 'Partner' to the annexing player, They will henceforth count as half that nation in peace talks and can veto actions of the annexing player(The annexing player also obtains this power when he is not in control). The two players may switch control of the nation between eachother during rehosts and can Co-op with eachother in HOI.

3. Start a Civil War: The annexed nation will be released at the start of the next session and both nations will be edited to be at war, with Annexation being the goal of both sides. The winner can do as he likes with the defeated player. Nations can intervene as if this was a great war.

Crisis Wars
Cannot be escalated with further demands, and normal peace rules apply, If someone concedes demands before a crisis turns to war, the opposite side my accept.

Allies cannot be called into a Crisis Wars, Crisis wars are restricted to the region the crisis is taking place. If there is any doubt on the 'region' of a Crisis, then the GM, Vgm and unbiased parties will be consulted and a decision will be made, until that region is declared the crisis region is just the state in question and any sea zones it may be bordering.

Nations freed as the result of a crisis war or crisis negotiation cannot be declared war on for their territory until hearts of Iron 4.

Examples:

A Crisis Erupts in Sicily, The Crisis zone is then Southern Italy and Tunisia and the Mediterranean around Sicily.
A Crisis Erupts over the Great Lakes region of Africa. All the states around that frontier will be considered the crisis zone, and possibly the coastline of East Africa.
A Crisis Erupts in China over Hong Kong. The South China Sea and southern China around Hong Kong will be considered the crisis zone.

Great Wars
Limited to 100% Total warscore in Demands. Separate peaces count towards this 100% So if Germany and Austria Hungary peace out Russia for 75% warscore they can only enact 25% from the remaining alliance.
Nations that collapse into revolt spirals as a result of great wars will be made a Fascist or Communist dictatorship and have the worst of the rebel damages fixed to stop the spiral, but no more.

Scoring

Victoria 2 has a fairly good built in scoring system so we'll be using primarily that. However certain things dont reward nearly as much as they should and so I think its only right that get corrected. For the most part I expect vicky score to convert as a 1-1 ratio. So instead certain things I think should apply multipliers to final score in vicky.

Ambitions:
Achievements with a new coat of paint there's only going to be a very small amount. These are going to be worth roughly +20% of the Median score to your score total they are counted at the end of the game.

Conductor of Europe: Win the most crises out of all players. For a crisis to count another player must be on the opposing side.

Cape to Cairo: Right on the tin, Control Cairo, Cape and a direct land connection between them. Sphered countries count towards this goal.

Rule the Waves: Control the majority of these important European Ports and islands Gibraltar, Malta, Cyprus, Crete, Oran, Heligoland, Sjaelland, London, Antwerp, Mann, Iceland.

Unequal Treaties: Control the majority of these important Asian ports and Islands. Taiwan, Port Arthur, Shadong (The Peninsula in China), Shanghai, Hong Kong, Macau, Tokyo, Sakhalin, Manila, Saigon, Singapore, Sidney.

Monroe Doctrine: Control the majority of these important American Ports and Islands. Cuba, Puerto Rico. Manhattan, Nova Scotia, Miami, New Orleans, Rio de Janeiro, Trinidad, Falklands, San Francisco, Anchorage, Hawaii.

No Gods No Masters: Be a Bourgeois Dictatorship at the end of the game. Tie goes to whoever has more anarcho liberal percentage in the population.

Le C'est Moi: Have the lowest amount of Political reforms at the end of the game. Ties bring in number of social policies enacted, and then percentage of reactionaries in the upper house after that.

The means of production: Have the most of this criteria met: Be a Communist dictatorship, Have all Social Policies Enacted, Have full Union rights, Have installed a communist government in another great power. Tie goes to whoever has more communist percentage in the population.

Sieg Heil: Have the most of this criteria Met: Be a fascist dictatorship, Have every province with a significant or majority of your primary culture controlled. Have lost a great war, Have at least 100 Tank divisions. Ties go to the person with the most armored divisions.

Bastion of Democracy: Have the most of this criteria met: Have all the most reforms passed, be a democracy or Hm's government, Have a militancy below 3. Reward goes to whoever has the largest percentage of non extremist parties in the upper house.

Bull Moose: Control the Panama Canal, It needs to be built

Eden's Folly: Control the Suez Canal, It needs to be built

Manifest Destiny: Control a land route from Manhattan to San Francisco.

Genghis'' Destiny: Control a land route from the pacific ocean to the Mediterranean.

Orient Express: Control a Land route from the atlantic to the Urals or Tehran.





Vaniver
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 5:44:31 AM
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dragoon9105 wrote:
Score in Eu4 will be used to buy Literacy, Spheres, starting reforms starting techs and change party stances or overflow to hearts of iron 4.
How are spheres managed by the converter now? And why not just use the converter default for literacy as well?
James Craig
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 6:48:27 AM
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Buy 1936 tech? Dont mind if I do! My stuart Tanks will rule the battlefield!

Vae Victis!
James Craig
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 6:49:04 AM
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Buy 1936 tech? Dont mind if I do! My stuart Tanks will rule the battlefield!

Vae Victis!
Tazzzo
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 7:26:20 AM
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Shouldn't tech be based on eu4 tech?
KhanXLT
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 2:53:26 PM
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I would guess this is based off 32 baseline.
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 5:41:13 PM
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The reason im suggesting literacy and conversion convert flat is so there's something to purchase during conversion time. Otherwise the converter tends to produce unreasonable results like converting with 70 percent literacy in 1836
Vaniver
Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 8:29:08 PM
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Dragoon's suggestions on Uncolonized Territory, Governments, and Diplomacy seem fine to me.

Springtime of Nations seems fine with minor modification; I suspect we should just use EU4 accepted cultures for V2 accepted cultures, with perhaps some EU4-based limit (perhaps only half of the number of promoted cultures you can have in EU4).

A smaller change that I like less is that the threshold for acceptance should depend on either EU4 culture group or V2 culture rather than EU4 culture, and should possibly be lower, probably something like 25% for monarchies and 10% for republics. Considering Korea as an example, it seems highly likely that I will have something like 30% Korean, 30% Nanfangren, 30% Japanese, and 10% Manchu at conversion time. It makes some sense for Manchu to not get included (even though it was the first non-Korean culture I accepted, and thus will have been accepted for something like three hundred years before suddenly becoming non-accepted), but not Nanfangren or Japanese.

I am not as sure about Ideology; my main concern is is 1) how big a factor ideology will be for factions in HoI4 and 2) whether fascism is more about representing a particular political stance or a balancing boost for someone getting beaten up. Basically, Japan in HoI4 is fascist but did not lose a war or have high revanchism, and I don't think it was a secondary power at the time. There's some chance I end up with an England-esque political system near the end of V2, but there's also some chance I end up with a Japan-esque political system, and I want to protect that possibility.

For Score, I disagree pretty strongly. So an alternative proposal:

Motivation: More than CKII, EU4, or HOI4, V2 is a game about populations and economics, about technologies shifting the balance of power in ways unpredictable beforehand. The mountain that once provided a natural wall for a country is now an impediment to trains, the ugly gunk turns out to have a hidden potential worth warring over, and so on. Keeping with the spirit of this, things should translate 1-1 in conversion as much as possible.

HoI4, on the other hand, is a game about chickens coming home to roost, and about the thundering end of history. To some extent, EU4 is the most balanced of the Paradox multiplayer games, and if you imagine a country that performs excellently throughout EU4 and then fails to thrive in V2, it seems like they should get some sort of boost during HoI4.

That suggests that EU4 score should have a minor impact on V2, EU4 development should have a major impact on V2, V2 development should have a major impact on HoI4, and EU4 score should have a moderate impact on HoI4.

Proposal: We convert from EU4 to V2 using Idhrendur's converter in basically all respects, with an additional draft for minor benefits. This means that, assuming everyone is at max tech at game end, which technologies people start off with will depend primarily on their idea groups, as discussed here. (Spoiler: Offensive, Defensive, and Quality all boost Army tech, Maritime, Naval, and Quality all boost Navy tech, Trade and Maritime boost Commerce, Administrative boosts Industry, and Humanist boosts Culture.)

The two things we change are RGOs and Literacy, which seems to be from a time when colleges were a thing. For RGOs, we do a randomization based on terrain, and if I have time we do a stochastic optimization that keeps the population of the provinces in mind in an attempt to have a more balanced economy at the start. For Literacy, we compute a tech score for each nation and then determine what literacy per nation will result in the same average literacy as Vanilla V2 while keeping relative literacies roughly proportional to relative tech scores (and within a range from 1% to 70%, say).

For the tech score, we do some combination of A) tech level over time (where we add up the tech level from every endsave for every country), B) tech level at the end, C) idea groups (Idhrendur thinks Economic, Innovative, Religious, and Administrative ideas should count for something), D) religion (Idhrendur thinks Protested, Reformed, and Confucianism should get a boost), E) and universities. For universities, something like fraction of states with an university seems like a better measure than position on a ranked list, which itself seems better than raw count.

Ideally we can do literacy in a culture-respecting way, such that you get nations like Prussia where the North Germans have a literacy of 70% and the Poles have a literacy of 25%; this might just be a primary/accepted/non-accepted split.

(Note that the converter supposedly sets the nation with top score to 100 prestige, and everyone else gets 100 * their score / top score, which means everyone benefits from taking down the top dog and everyone benefits from increasing their score. This seems much better than an ordinal rank, where it's just as good to be in second regardless of the difference.)

Draft: We have a set of boosts and customizations, likely with different rarities and strengths, and have 3 times the number of players of them available. We do a draft in score order, so everyone gets three customizations, and everyone gets a first round pick (meaning that top score doesn't give you complete freedom).

An incomplete list of such boosts:

Locked RGO: a province cored by you or one of your subjects has the same RGO in V2 as EU4. (This will be selected before the RGO map is determined, and so you picking iron will make other provinces less likely to have iron, especially if it's high-population.) Provinces whose EU4 trade good doesn't map to a V2 RGO can't be selected.
Change party stance: Choose an issue and a party in your nation, and adjust their stance by one.
Political Reform: Choose a political reform, and adjust its level by one.
Social Reform: Choose a social reform, and increase its level by one. [Edit: strongly opposed, will probably drop.]
Decision: Choose a decision from [list] that hasn't been chosen yet, and it will be enabled for your tag.
Boost literacy: National literacy is 1% higher than calculated.
Boost population: National population is 1% higher than calculated.

HoI4 conversion: Almost everything outside of the Political tab will get determined by the converter. Nations will be brought up to median EU4 score value (if below median or a nation that was unplayed in EU4), will get bonus score based on V2 achievements (tied to the median EU4 score value), and will spend those points on things on the political tab-- 1) national focus tree, 2) political advisors, 3) design companies, 4) military advisors, and 5) a boost to commander distribution.

(I'm guessing that, for the commanders, rather than randomizing them so you get a weird mishmash of Germans and Englishmen in the Chinese army, we'll keep pictures and names tied to culture group but will have a quantity dependent on size of army and distribution of skills based on stuff like EU4 army tradition, EU4 discipline, and V2 leader traits.)
KhanXLT
Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 8:59:36 PM
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I am against high starting literacy, and inital social reforms.
Clonefusion
Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 9:31:49 PM
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KhanXLT wrote:
I am against high starting literacy, and inital social reforms.


Me too.

U cant have a spread of 1% to 70% between players.
Vaniver
Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2018 10:53:31 PM
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Clonefusion wrote:
U cant have a spread of 1% to 70% between players.
I haven't run the numbers yet, because V2 doesn't have an annex console command, but isn't the average vanilla literacy something like 20-30%? Suppose it's 25%, all territory is owned by players, and there are two tiers of players with equal population, with the top tier having 50% more tech points then the bottom tier. Then you'll have 30% literacy in top tier countries, 20% in bottom tier countries, and overall average literacy of 25%. The bounds are there to make sure it doesn't try to do anything ridiculous like give negative literacy to the African interior minors.

The more population that's controlled by backwards nations, the further forward the top nations can be, but global average literacy will be locked at whatever it's at. Since it seems likely that the biggest countries in terms of population will also be tech leaders, that means something like +5% literacy over average in the tech leader countries, and -5% in the rest.

---

More importantly, any system that doesn't rearrange pre-existing literacy, by having it bought with score points, for example, will potentially allow us to have high starting literacy.
dragoon9105
Posted: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 3:21:15 AM
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Average literacy isn't a thing in v2. It's a mechanic to balance rural nations with high pop against urban nations built more tall. The sole exceptions to this rule are the USA and Germany which are both special cases.
Vaniver
Posted: Wednesday, March 07, 2018 8:20:53 AM
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dragoon9105 wrote:
Average literacy isn't a thing in v2. It's a mechanic to balance rural nations with high pop against urban nations built more tall. The sole exceptions to this rule are the USA and Germany which are both special cases.
It seems to me like literacy is used for research points and determining how POPs shift, such that starting off with too high literacy will lead to research happening too quickly and perhaps overpromotion into craftsmen.

It is not obvious to me that we're going to have rural high pop nations vs. low pop urban nations, mostly because the converter will determine pop numbers straight from development, and thus two nations with identical development will end up with identical population. Consider Khazaria and Occitania, who have the same development, despite Khazaria having 50% more provinces than Occitania has. I'd expect the converter to give both of them 12M pop (or whatever the number ends up being), and this resulting in there not needing to be a balancing factor between the two.

I could see an argument for doing literacy province by province, tho, so you end up with literate urban areas and illiterate backwaters. Places like Leon would be fairly evenly literate and populated, with the cities still standing out from the countrside, and places like Khazaria would have a few states with decent literacy and then vast swathes of rural peasantry.

A simple suggestion here is something like "the literacy of pops is the same as the EU4 dev of the province they came from," with weighted averaging happening when multiple provinces map to the same V2 province, and perhaps some modifiers (like +5% for being in a province in a university, +1% for being in a state with a university, maybe some bonuses for ideas, etc.). (Note that this method skews things more than having national literacy that's determined by average dev, because of urban population concentration. It's average square of development, rather than average development.)
The Professor
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 1:46:35 AM
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Quote:

It is not obvious to me that we're going to have rural high pop nations vs. low pop urban nations, mostly because the converter will determine pop numbers straight from development, and thus two nations with identical development will end up with identical population. Consider Khazaria and Occitania, who have the same development, despite Khazaria having 50% more provinces than Occitania has. I'd expect the converter to give both of them 12M pop (or whatever the number ends up being), and this resulting in there not needing to be a balancing factor between the two.


Kazaria is super wide and will have to develop in a manner similar to Russia; and have to get a lot of people to migrate to the big states like Moscow to effectively industrialize; there is a practical V2 difference between the two. Small nations with high dev would have a much better time industrializing but might have a harder time attracting immigrants and dealing with invasions.

Next; but I believe capitalists, craftsmen, and clerks, are typically representative of "Urban" pops; so having idea sets, buildings, for a sufficiently long enough period of time should result in a marked difference in the ratio of pops.

Quote:

I could see an argument for doing literacy province by province, tho, so you end up with literate urban areas and illiterate backwaters. Places like Leon would be fairly evenly literate and populated, with the cities still standing out from the countrside, and places like Khazaria would have a few states with decent literacy and then vast swathes of rural peasantry.


I *believe* I had partially fixed literacy in the converter to no longer just give a blanket literacy score but I think I might've been kicked off the project by Baron before I fully implemented it. The converter basically kinda just shrugs when it comes to literacy and needs to be revamped; doing it by province, or rather, by POP, should be the intent.

Literacy should be a function of your ratio of civic buildings (Universities etc), how long you've had them (400 years of tradition i.e Oxford/Urbino vs something sprung up in 1800), with a special exception for Colonial nations (Which presumably attract educated elites or self-selecting immigrants), additionally modified by Idea groups/Sets; Vanivers national sets should give a stronger bonus than say, Samurai Vikings to Literacy; going for Innovative first should give a stronger bonus than going for Innovative last; not just on literacy but on pop ratios.

There are ways to create a system that results in variety between otherwise on paper equal nations based off of playstyles and choices. Baron of course disagreed as he didnt think people should get additional clerks other than him.

Quote:

A simple suggestion here is something like "the literacy of pops is the same as the EU4 dev of the province they came from," with weighted averaging happening when multiple provinces map to the same V2 province, and perhaps some modifiers (like +5% for being in a province in a university, +1% for being in a state with a university, maybe some bonuses for ideas, etc.). (Note that this method skews things more than having national literacy that's determined by average dev, because of urban population concentration. It's average square of development, rather than average development.)


Insofar as we use dev to determine population I don't think it's all that useful at determining whether a given province is Urban in of itself. I'd not use dev for literacy but buildings since a highdev province you are more likely to build economic and civic buildings than military buildings.



Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Vaniver
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 7:55:30 AM
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The Professor wrote:
Insofar as we use dev to determine population I don't think it's all that useful at determining whether a given province is Urban in of itself. I'd not use dev for literacy but buildings since a highdev province you are more likely to build economic and civic buildings than military buildings.
The challenge I see with buildings is that they're funded by cash which comes from trade and production and taxes, whereas development comes from mana which is the primary constraint of EU4. There is some sense in which buildings are just proportional to dev, but coarser--it's not like you're going to have 4 buildings in a province unless it has 20 dev (or is flatlands with 10 dev).
The Professor
Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 5:41:26 PM
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Insofar as we approach EU-V2 along simulationist grounds, while the number of building slots is a soft constraint, and people prioritizing survival and power in EU might not build universities in every province or expend the mana to do so because ultimately you can raise literacy yourself in Victoria II just by funding education to max. Esp. if we have something like a 40% soft cap on literacy across the board where no one is converting as 90% unless they're a OPM.

However the key thing here is "How long ago was this built?"

So by a limited number of buildings slots whether it's University-Barracks-Docks or TradePost-University-Temple, this should result in very different pop ratios and buildings according to their built time is our most reliable indicator of a difference in kind between players.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
James Craig
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 12:42:40 AM
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Will you be going province by province and nation by nation to track down the building date of all those different things and then quantifying them individually with vicky pops blayne?

Vae Victis!
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 4:42:01 AM
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Posts: 2,153
The Focus should be making Victoria functional for actual play. Trying to rectify balance issues and such should come second.
The Professor
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 5:34:54 PM
 General of the Army

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Joined: 11/17/2007
Posts: 8,437
Location: Time
James Craig wrote:
Will you be going province by province and nation by nation to track down the building date of all those different things and then quantifying them individually with vicky pops blayne?


You understand that we have a converter that does thing automatically?

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, March 16, 2018 7:43:37 PM
 Lieutenant General


Joined: 8/25/2014
Posts: 2,153
So on the RGO issue, Me and Clone were talking and theres a way to preserve regional scarcity while also improving the availability to resources overall.

I'm mainly referring to Dye and Tropical wood, Opium, Cotton, Silk, Tea, Tobacco and Coffee.

Clones proposing we increase the weight in the randomizer for certain goods while lowering others. However I had issue with the fact that doing that without any guards will just end up giving every man an RGO, which eliminates the entire point of the RGO system.

So I proposed we modify the converter to create Dummy Tags with cores for Arctic, Tropical and Arid regions for when we run the randomizer.

If Oddman is around I'd like to know if its possible that we can edit the code of the randomizer to look for these dummy Tags and then apply a separate weighting (sort of like how the converter already does for terrain) so Tropical regions have a far higher frequency of getting Dye and Tropical wood. Arid regions have a higher chance for Opium, ect

This would resolve the issue I have with the randomizer that nations like the Europeans and Japan from just suddenly getting every RGO they could ever want and never needing to look for colonies. While still ensuring that for those that do own the RGO's that there is enough to go around.


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