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James Craig
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 10:54:59 PM
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Location: Scotland
It changes my situation because thus far I have been able to maintain alliances with European powers like Leon. During the last big war I had (Besides Clone's suicide run) Khan and dragoon both came after me against both ranger and sauron. During that fight it was my understanding that the homelands of atlassia and leon were offl-iimits, but by your ruling that is not the case. If that war were to happen again tomorrow both of them would risk their homelands to the powers of europe in order to come to my aid. This is not how it was played previously and thus makes the situation "Chaotic"


Vae Victis!
LordSauronOfHertfordshire
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 3:59:30 AM
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Not only that, but the war in question declared against James was declared *as a colonial war.* had it been otherwise I would not have joined. It certainly makes a great deal of difference that that interpretation be changed now.

Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
Ranger9000
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 4:39:22 AM
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Under the colonial war rules I think that means Clone should technically be punished as he had nothing he could lose in the war as we couldn't attack his homeland, and for using it to attack james' homeland.

Admittedly I've been subscribed this whole time to the belief that new world nations at least we're valid targets for CWs

Edit:Apparently it wasn't declared as a colonial war. So my earlier comments are null. Apologies to clone
King of Men
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 6:38:18 AM
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I did not hear Clone declare those wars colonial, but I could easily have missed something. If he did so he was clearly in error. (I wrote that before he said on Discord that he didn't. )

Quote:
Khan and dragoon both came after me against both ranger and sauron. During that fight it was my understanding that the homelands of atlassia and leon were offlimits, but by your ruling that is not the case.


That would be the "Totally not Secretly Shia Reconquest of Trinidad"? I can't remember if it was declared colonial or not, but assuming it was, you're right, that's inconsistent.

I think, unfortunately, Dragoon and I weren't really thinking of the case of powerful American nations with European allies when we wrote the CW rule. Let's try to stretch the rule to cover this in a sensible way. Would it make sense to say that a war can be colonial with respect to allies, but total with respect to the war leaders? For example, suppose I, Scandinavia (allied to England), declare war on Brazil (allied to Leon). I declare "this war is colonial". Under the current interpretation this would be a remarkably silly move on my part, since Brazil has no colonies and I do; probably my navy can defend Africa against Brazil, but still. Under my proposed new interpretation, all European powers in the war can land in Brazil, and all American powers can land in Scandinavia, but the European powers can't attack each others' European provinces. Everyone can attack the overseas provinces of opposing European powers. I think this would basically be the rule we've been fighting by so far, it just looks kind of complicated written out.

Let me just check: Suppose Brazil was additionally allied to Malaya and to New England. I would be unable to land in those two countries since they would not be war leaders and so for them the war is colonial. Likewise, if I was allied to Korea, Brazil couldn't land in Asia since the war would be colonial for Korea, but note that Brazil could attack Korea's American colonies.

Am I missing any edge cases? Any exploits? Is it reasonable to keep track of who is fighting colonial and who isn't?

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 7:49:06 AM
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Another suggestion: We can change the colonial-war rule to read "you may not fight in an opponent's heartland unless that opponent has no colonies and is overseas for you". Then we could also get rid of the rule forbidding the declaration of CWs if you have no colonies yourself. I think, actually, this may be the rule we've been following, rather than what was actually written.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Wednesday, April 25, 2018 3:48:24 PM
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I think if I'm reading it right it sounds sensible.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
King of Men
Posted: Saturday, April 28, 2018 6:06:06 AM
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Gold AAR reward increased to 1600.

Colonial war rule changed to read thus:

New rule wrote:
the homelands of the belligerents are off limits, except that they may be blockaded (and raided, but you can do that in peacetime anyway). Additionally, you may attack the homeland of the opposing war leader if they are overseas and have no colonies.


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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 1:57:28 AM
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Someone suggested that the manpower AAR reward should be increased from its current 5000; now that I myself actually need manpower this seems reasonable. Dragoon suggests increasing it to 20k. Objections? (To avoid a conflict of interest I won't take it myself this week. ) Also, anything else that should be increased?

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Ranger9000
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:06:45 PM
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Putting this here before I forget.

Can we get a ruling on if the minor/AI colonies are going to get absorbed into player Colonies come the EU4 to V2 conversion? A.k.a. If Hades will be absorbed into Rharia and Louisiana will be absorbed into New England?
Tazzzo
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2018 10:22:45 PM
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Probably should also fuse the korean colonies so someone can player there in Vicky.
Ranger9000
Posted: Sunday, May 06, 2018 11:02:52 PM
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Them too yeah.
King of Men
Posted: Monday, May 07, 2018 12:01:15 AM
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Ok. Argument in favour is pretty obvious: This is required for these states to be viable player spots in Vicky. Argument against: Then why didn't the players get it done in EU4? CNs can DOW each other, I believe. Anyone want to express strong opinions for or against the merge, building on one of these starting points?

Also, I see I forgot about the manpower AAR reward; there's only one session left (touch wood) and I suppose it's unlikely to matter now, but Manpower reward increased to 20k. Next time around I'll make this auto-increasing like gold.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Ranger9000
Posted: Monday, May 07, 2018 1:19:07 AM
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CNs under the same overlord cannot Declare War on eachother. So the requirement would be either the player has to leave from their overlord and declare war on the overlords one, or they have to boot out the other CN and hope they can take it over before the neighbours jump on it.

Also for some like Brickfrog he only just started today, and there hasn't really been a player yet for Korean California that actually got to make it a full session.
dragoon9105
Posted: Monday, May 07, 2018 2:38:20 AM
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Well Cn's can declare war on their overlord and demand provinces in fakewars for free. The issue is 1. nobody has done that and 2 Were nearing a stage where its too late to do that as well as coring times are somewhat of a highly relevant issue.

As I said before, I'm fine with New England eating Canada and Louisiana and Dixie eating Hades. Similarly a Unified California is fine in my book. If Scandinavia and Great Britain are willing to fix that border gore in The Caribbean and give it to Dixie (the current weakest American power after combination) a combination of American powers or make it its own slot.

I also dont think its unreasonable to compensate people who combine thier Cn's and allow them to go free to get some form of compensation, Though I imagine that will get some heavy resistance from noncolonizers ala Khazaria and China.

Clonefusion
Posted: Monday, May 07, 2018 2:07:45 PM
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dragoon9105 wrote:
I also dont think its unreasonable to compensate people who combine thier Cn's and allow them to go free to get some form of compensation, Though I imagine that will get some heavy resistance from noncolonizers ala Khazaria and China.

I would not object to overlords getting more literacy and colonies less, something like a 3 to 5% change, but i guess that is not a buff.
King of Men
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2018 3:26:51 AM
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Ok decision time. As nobody seems strongly opposed, and it would be good to have several powerful slots in the Americas, colonial unification is on.



Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Thursday, May 10, 2018 4:51:48 PM
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China objects unless non-colonizers get some other buff.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
King of Men
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2018 5:24:43 AM
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I don't think this is a buff for colonisers, honestly. It's a buff for the new American players, but the colonisers are basically letting them go, no? I observe that in 100% of cases where this has happened previously, the united colonies turned on their former overlord the moment it was even halfway safe to do so. Big Grin One powerful definitely-ex colony with a human foreign policy seems worse to me than three relatively minor colonies of which two can be relied on to stay as loyal as the AI ever is. Not that colonies are incredibly useful in Vicky anyway, but at least they're not likely to be active enemies.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Gollevainen
Posted: Friday, May 11, 2018 9:56:35 AM
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The condition for playing my colonial nations is that they will remain in the British comonwelth. That said I dont have objection that they can or should be as viable spots to play as such. I fully support the unification of my new england and british lousiana into one big dominion.



Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
James Craig
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2018 6:27:34 AM
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Im sure that is a condition any overlord would wish to impose. I don't think it is a fair one however. Asking to take over a colony is a courtesy, but honestly any AI country colony or not should be up for grabs by any player who wishes it, with or without overlord agreement. Colonial rebellions will never happen if such rules are imposed upon players.

Vae Victis!
Clonefusion
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2018 11:20:12 AM
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James Craig wrote:
Im sure that is a condition any overlord would wish to impose. I don't think it is a fair one however. Asking to take over a colony is a courtesy, but honestly any AI country colony or not should be up for grabs by any player who wishes it, with or without overlord agreement. Colonial rebellions will never happen if such rules are imposed upon players.

Why would u colonise if u just lose the land, colonization is not worth the investment already in eu4, totally removing the land from u in vic2 means u paid money in eu4 to gain an enemy in vicky (the money u get from your overseas colonies is not worth the cost of colonizing if u compare it to all other means of expansion) !
Gollevainen
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2018 12:08:21 PM
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Yeah and I didn't ask anyone to play my colonies, I actually never wanted anyone playing them becouse of those very reasons. However Astat was kind of just stuffed there without asking me anything beforehand and thus I made a clear conditions from which I allowed him (or anyone) to play there. If you don't want to abide to those conditions, don't play CNs...




Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
Ranger9000
Posted: Saturday, May 12, 2018 8:24:41 PM
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I don't mind whichever way my colonies go and imo if you deliberately want to lock people out of playing colonies because they might turn on you then you shouldn't play a colonizer. The point of colonies is to create new player slots for V2 and HOI4

On other note. I'd like to propose we skip tommorows session due to mother's day. It's a bit late but if I was to guess most North Americans might be busy for all or at least a bit of the session.
King of Men
Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2018 1:15:06 AM
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Skip on the 13th for Mother's Day. Sorry for the last-minute notice.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Gollevainen
Posted: Sunday, May 13, 2018 5:51:43 PM
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Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
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