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hiensen
Posted: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 11:37:38 AM
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As Hungary and Romania minors have both been played by human sometimes they got germ land doc that makes an huge difference.
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:22:09 PM
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I am starting a new EIR series, the wednesday after next. I have spent the last little while fixing the ai for the game so that it tends to operate with more options in SP, and does more human like things. I think its ready to go, so I will blatantly advertise the product here now. I hope Hiensen doesn't mind.

As for MP, it solves a lot of the problems discussed here by Dan and others.

Trade:
For example, the issue of the Soviet Union cutting off trade to Germany before Barbarossa is handled by punishing the USSR if it is not trading with Germany. USSR gets a -5 peacetime IC mod, if it is not trading with Germany. Both countries get advantages for continuing military and industrial co-operation. How much that is worth to the players is up to the players. Also, events appear that punish the Allies trading with the Soviet Union prior to Danzig to prevent the Soviet player from mass feeding France and UK.

Mass trade exploiting of minors is also controlled by decreasing the trade cancelation threshold for all minors up until March 1938. Problems in earlier versions of EIR where there were not sufficient rares available in total dueto the "peacetime_IC_mod" on the SU have been resolved by adding rares overall. Trading is still tight, but not impossible.

Molotov/Ribbentrop:
The issue of the early Barbarossa is controlled by a number of features, no country may break NAP's in the rules, but should Germany go for limited pact, then Soviet Union will go up to 100% industrial efficiency, if the historical pact is chosen SU will be at 70-75% industrial effciency up unitl the point where war breaks out. This gives the German player flexibility in terms of his game plan, while at the same time making the SU better prepared for the initial assault, if it takes place in 1940.

Axis Gangbang of Soviet Union:
The earlier versions of EIR prevented any kind of Japanese intervention in the Russo-German war until Barbarossa was fairly far along, and Japan had secured her Pacific objectives, as in this rules set. I have now changed this slightly, allowing the Japanese player a second option for participating in the Russo-German war early, but only if it also abandons any ambitions whatsoever in the Pacific -- in this second option Japan does not sign the Tirpartite Pact, and does not even get Indochina from Vichy and loses Techteam, minsters and leader Yamamoto. Also, as before, in both option Japan does not get the Chinese Puppet so its participation in the war against Russia is not nearly as significant as it is in Vanilla.

The timing of the Japanese DOW against UK and Allies, or the USA is controlled by NAP's dependent on securing Indochina and the like. USA or Allied premetive DOW of Japan is controlled by NAP that expire in early 1942.

Japanese rape of unprepared USA, Islands and so forth:
The main issue for the USA player taking over an AI USA is that the AI build is neither sufficiently strong in doctrine or unit production prior to war. I have made considerable changes to the USA ai, so that it studies Naval Dcotrines, and builds enough aircraft carriers, and garrison units to defend the main Islands.

Early D-day:
Cohen's point is right on, and this issue has never been truly resolved. I can't even say that it has been resolved in this version of EIR. However, I can say that reducing the power of Japan overall, and also tying Japanese participation in the war against Russia to achieving Victory in the Pacific substantially increases the reasons for the Allies to take their commitment in the Pacific theater seriously. In anycase, if USA is preparing for early D-day they should not bitch if they are so unprepared that they can not also defend Pearl Harbour. Also, USA war entry either by allying England, or declaring war is much more difficult if things are not going well for Axis, or Japan is not being belligerent.

All or nothing in France:
All in nothing in France strategy has been substantially affected by adjusting the sliders for UK and France, increasing the "Peactime_IC_mod" for both. It difficult for SU to over-feed supplies and resources to France and UK because events prevent trade, and also the USA can not be efficiently exploited because the trade cancellation threshold is low, and it is played ai until the fall of France. Also, most of the Commonwealth units are locked into place until Danzig.

Combat system:
The new combat system overcomes the fact that the vanilla game does not give enough intrinsic advantage to defence by increasing the frequency of combat events such as "Counter-Attack", "Tactical-Withdrawal" and "Delay." I don't know precisely how much this increases combat length in comparison to mods such as MEM, but the intent is to create a system where combat length is about half way between MEM and Vanilla. There have been some other changes, but that is the primary one that effects game play. My play-tests indicate that it is substantially longer than vanilla.

I will be posting for the new game, and the DL for the mod, today or tomorrow.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
hiensen
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 2:28:25 AM
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wow nice job here, I might be interested to give it a shot in one of our next weekend games if others are interested or join the new game you're going to make up.
Nice events improvements here, btw how are the costs of units ? I remember it was heavily high comparated to the IC useable during peacetime so the tanks production wasn't really worth it.
What about giving little mobilization events for some countries so they get few extra units ? Could be nice for italy to have a few amount of light tanks when it's going for Africa for example.
And what about increasing MP events income they are so rare and should be interesting for a germany about to be invaded from his original borders or a ussr exhausted in 42-43 for example.
cueball
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:28:22 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Thanks!

Well I guess my point on that, as far as armour and unit cost goes, is that I am trying to get the game to produce about 1/2 as many units overall, both so that the armies are much more in line with the historical number of divisions, and also to reduce CPU load for long games. The way it is set up now, Russia basicly has the capability to produce about as many armies as they actually had in June 1941, some 350 divisions, not the 600 divisions that is possible in vanilla. Historically the Germans only invaded Russia with about 20 armoured divisions.

Commonly in vanilla we see much bigger tanks armies than that. For one thing, these costs will also reduce the chances of of 20 UK tanks lumbering over Siegfried line at Danzig. This is hard for UK to consider, given the costs. Part of the trick here is for UK to actually be more interested in garrisons and infantry that it can use in Asia so that it is in a more defensive posture overall. I actually increased cost for infantry slightly in comparison to the amount I increased the cost for armour, since armour is very slightly nerfed in comparison to infantry, it still has the same punch but slightly less sustain over the long hall -- hardly noticable but it is there -- This simulates the extra time factor involved in refitting and resupplying mechanized units at the far end of the supply chain.

Russia is probably the hardest country to play here.

I have considered adding MP events for majors low on MP, heading into 42/43. But have not done it yet.

Another thing I have done, is make the AI much more sophisticated for SP. Originally, I started doing this because I needed the ai to do human-like things when I was testing evens system. Now, the ai will do more ahitorical options, such as Italy might invade Yugo while Germany is at war in Poland, Italy might join axis early. Also there is a very slight chance that if Axis is ahead of schedule they will choose to invade Turkey if Italy is doing well in North Africa. Germany will resolve the issu in Spain after Vichy, if the SCW is still going, allying with Nat. Spain. Basicly the EIR mod is more or less completely SP compatible now, I think. Though I only have observed the game play through as an unaligned minor, I have not tried to win as Germany on Very hard/Furious or whatever.

If anyone wants to see how it works, they could probably just play it in SP to get the feel of it. I'd be interested in any feedback.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
TheWretchedMass
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:17:43 PM
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cueball wrote:
Thanks!

Well I guess my point on that, as far as armour and unit cost goes, is that I am trying to get the game to produce about 1/2 as many units overall, both so that the armies are much more in line with the historical number of divisions, and also to reduce CPU load for long games. The way it is set up now, Russia basicly has the capability to produce about as many armies as they actually had in June 1941, some 350 divisions, not the 600 divisions that is possible in vanilla. Historically the Germans only invaded Russia with about 20 armoured divisions.

Commonly in vanilla we see much bigger tanks armies than that. For one thing, these costs will also reduce the chances of of 20 UK tanks lumbering over Siegfried line at Danzig. This is hard for UK to consider, given the costs. Part of the trick here is for UK to actually be more interested in garrisons and infantry that it can use in Asia so that it is in a more defensive posture overall. I actually increased cost for infantry slightly in comparison to the amount I increased the cost for armour, since armour is very slightly nerfed in comparison to infantry, it still has the same punch but slightly less sustain over the long hall -- hardly noticable but it is there -- This simulates the extra time factor involved in refitting and resupplying mechanized units at the far end of the supply chain.

Russia is probably the hardest country to play here.

I have considered adding MP events for majors low on MP, heading into 42/43. But have not done it yet.

Another thing I have done, is make the AI much more sophisticated for SP. Originally, I started doing this because I needed the ai to do human-like things when I was testing evens system. Now, the ai will do more ahitorical options, such as Italy might invade Yugo while Germany is at war in Poland, Italy might join axis early. Also there is a very slight chance that if Axis is ahead of schedule they will choose to invade Turkey if Italy is doing well in North Africa. Germany will resolve the issu in Spain after Vichy, if the SCW is still going, allying with Nat. Spain. Basicly the EIR mod is more or less completely SP compatible now, I think. Though I only have observed the game play through as an unaligned minor, I have not tried to win as Germany on Very hard/Furious or whatever.

If anyone wants to see how it works, they could probably just play it in SP to get the feel of it. I'd be interested in any feedback.

Good thinking here cueball, you think a prebuilt atlantic wall of coastal forts would solve the problem of an early dday?
cueball
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:32:42 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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This idea comes up a lot. I am a firm believer in people paying for things. So, Germany should decide; I think. More aircraft above Berlin or more forts in Cherbourgh? If Germany does not have the IC to do both, and Germany is crippled because of it, then the problem is that Germany does not have enough IC, IMO. I basicly start building mine as I enter Belgium. That said, I had considered that Germany might get a mega-project bonus, where it could get cheaper construction costs based in an event, because it is buying in bulk, using specially trained engineer staff and labour and so on and so forth. I also thought that they might lose a prominent general who would superives the project. My philosophy if basicly that for every advantage there should be a punishment, I essentially.

But, that is a fantasy at this point. I actually did design a functioning "Germany gets a free atlantic wall" event for Gunny if any body wants it. I am not using it at this time though.

Another thing, is that landings are substantially more difficult in this game for a couple of reasons, one being that increased combat length means that "support defence" is actually effective. Also there are higher maluses for amphibious assault overstacking. When landing, not only are large landing groups less efficient, the defender also has more ability to reinforce the beech, and also send out navies to interdict the incoming fleet, or aircraft to bomb them. At this poinit a single fort might do as well as three in vanilla.

This concept of naval landings really originates with the MEM system.


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
hiensen
Posted: Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:07:13 AM
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I added a rule for paradroping missions : now they are forbidden if the purpose is to kill retreating units.
cueball
Posted: Sunday, June 15, 2008 1:22:00 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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A good one I think. And clear.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Anders
Posted: Friday, July 04, 2008 2:05:37 PM
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I see set 1.2 is a bit better than the old set. Except the gay ass no-human USA rule. Make it human from '39, or it will be totally fucked in the pacific.
Same thing with the forts; just because Jack keeps beating you that way...

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

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Anders is correct.

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I would tend to agree with Anders.

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hiensen
Posted: Friday, July 04, 2008 2:52:40 PM
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As for the non human rule we still need to test the AI modified files.You know it's not bad thing to test out new things, atm we only played 2 times serious mp with this rule and result is USA 1-Japan 1 so for what i've seen it's not that fucked.A good player in Japan and USA can bring a really interesting challenge.
What we want right now from AI modified is USA with a very nice base IC, good techs, a decent Carrier force but no units he has to build to handle the Axis in late game, I think that's something called "American Awakening" :-)

Concerning the forts this rule exist since ages,it existed before I get used to mp, I use them since I play MP in consistent groups (so that's 4-5 years yay)and met no problem with this rule whatever is the country I or others play with.
"just because Jack keeps beating you that way.." dunno what you are talking about, I played this fanatic only 1 time 1 or 2 years ago , he had nothing special but playing only ussr... , he didn't beat me or anything the one that did was my friend visser in north africa when I fucked up big time with an african campaign. barb had just started and I was on the offensive move.... LOL then we stopped cuz of my childish complains after loss of 25 german units in lybia overun by crusaders hordes One Tooth Grin
von_Bock
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 3:45:21 PM
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A rule I have tinkered with, with some other people is


Just like the allies cant bring commonwealth forces to Europe until a specific date. We think that Italy should be the only axis nation allowed in Africa/Middle east until after Barbarossa

that way, it prevents the eventual gang bang on UK, giving it a chance to survive and defend its holdings around its empire. Then once Barbarossa begins, the German player can send forces to the region if it wishes as it now deducts from his strength elsewhere.

Thoughts?

"The pen is mightier then the sword and I just got defeated by both" Ryan W.
hiensen
Posted: Sunday, January 25, 2009 6:21:04 PM
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von_Bock wrote:
A rule I have tinkered with, with some other people is


Just like the allies cant bring commonwealth forces to Europe until a specific date. We think that Italy should be the only axis nation allowed in Africa/Middle east until after Barbarossa

that way, it prevents the eventual gang bang on UK, giving it a chance to survive and defend its holdings around its empire. Then once Barbarossa begins, the German player can send forces to the region if it wishes as it now deducts from his strength elsewhere.

Thoughts?


I moved your idea in the correct topic if you don't mind.
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