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GeneralSherman
Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 2:41:23 PM
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Posts: 71
Location: Virginia, USA
I am going to start this thread to get the ideas out there. It is a system in progress.

Note: Much of what I will suggest may already be done. Again, I am developing a system, and we can figure out what's been done and what needs to be done in the implementation stage.

Goals:

-- Control the Pre-War USA economy for play balance

-- Guide the US player to prioritize the Pacific Theatre

-- Delay USA war entry and "D-Day" until historically sensible dates

-- Make it interesting for the player.

Historical Comments:

HOI Presents a pretty mild, untroubled USA that progresses steadily on a path toward war and full use of its massive economy. The reality of the USA from 1936 to 1941 was quite different. Accurately modeling this period can present the player with plenty of problems to solve, decisions to make, and policies to implement. For example, the period presented the following issues:

-- Labor trouble

The USA entered 1936 with a lot of dissent from labor relations. Labor-management relations were violent. The unions were trying to get established, and the industries were using everything they had to keep the unions out. In late 1936 and early 1937, some momentous strikes and battles took place. How labor policy was developed and the labor situation was managed would have long-standing impact on the US economy.

-- Isolationism

Isolationism was not a monolithic force. Most Americans felt the US should stay out of a European war, but many would accept it under the right circumstances. Many would oppose aid to Russia to the end. Others only opposed until the Germans attacked. Many who were "isolationist" were in favor of a more aggressive response to Japan, because America's imperial ambitions were in the Pacific, so the japanese were natural, direct rivals. War with Japan would not necessarily mean war with Germany.

-- the Great Depression

Entering 1936, the economy was improving. It was still in bad shape (over 20% unemployment), but improving. However, 1937 saw a major recession hit. It was almost a depression. It wiped out most of the gains of the previous few years, and lasted well into 1938. This had major political ramifications.

-- Race relations

Blacks were resisting Jim Crow. What would become the civil rights movement was beginning to ferment. The Great Migration was underway in this period. Even throughout WW2, race problems were severe, and there was turbulence at the confluence of race and labor. The USA player should have domestic dissent to deal with throughout the war.

-- Election cycles

Every two years, the USA goes through an election, and every four years it is a presidential election. These cause turbulence on the domestic front. This can be modeled.

These issues can be used to force the US player to make decisions that will impact the future. For example, early in the game, the labor issue explodes. The government had a decision to make. The decision for the player in broad terms is:

1) Support Labor
2) Support Management
3) Stay out of it.

Each choice has short-term and long-term consequences.

Easily every quarter the US player can be presented with a decision to make. It's not necessarily that one choice is good and one is bad. They will just be different. The goal is not to provide a "right path" that the player has to learn to follow, and a "wrong path" to avoid. Just different paths.

In future posts, the system will be set forth. Each major point will be supported by a reference to research materials.
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 2:36:30 PM
Free Man

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GeneralSherman wrote:
I am going to start this thread to get the ideas out there. It is a system in progress.

Note: Much of what I will suggest may already be done. Again, I am developing a system, and we can figure out what's been done and what needs to be done in the implementation stage.
Interesting plan, let's see where it goes.

Quote:
Goals:

-- Control the Pre-War USA economy for play balance
The usa up until at least 39 should be focused almost entirely on fixing his damaged economy.

Quote:
-- Guide the US player to prioritize the Pacific Theatre
The priority should go to the main threat. For example if germany gains any islands in the atlantic, it becomes much more of a threat that even the loss of the Hawaiian would be.

Quote:
-- Delay USA war entry and "D-Day" until historically sensible dates
Agreed for an historical game. If the game goes ahistorical, that may be unreasonable.

Quote:
-- Make it interesting for the player.
Again agreed, however there is not much "interesting" about just having to pay off large amounts of dissent for no reasons. If you give a dissent hit for "labor trouble" or "race relations" the player should have the option of making policy changes to ward these hits off or change outcomes.

Quote:
Historical Comments:

HOI Presents a pretty mild, untroubled USA that progresses steadily on a path toward war and full use of its massive economy. The reality of the USA from 1936 to 1941 was quite different. Accurately modeling this period can present the player with plenty of problems to solve, decisions to make, and policies to implement. For example, the period presented the following issues:
This same case could be presented for every nation.

Quote:
-- Labor trouble

The USA entered 1936 with a lot of dissent from labor relations. Labor-management relations were violent. The unions were trying to get established, and the industries were using everything they had to keep the unions out. In late 1936 and early 1937, some momentous strikes and battles took place. How labor policy was developed and the labor situation was managed would have long-standing impact on the US economy.
Here the player should have the option of supporting the companies, the unions, or some middle ground with different outcomes for each choice.

Quote:
-- Isolationism

Isolationism was not a monolithic force. Most Americans felt the US should stay out of a European war, but many would accept it under the right circumstances. Many would oppose aid to Russia to the end. Others only opposed until the Germans attacked. Many who were "isolationist" were in favor of a more aggressive response to Japan, because America's imperial ambitions were in the Pacific, so the japanese were natural, direct rivals. War with Japan would not necessarily mean war with Germany.
True, perhaps the player could support the deployment of the "Abraham Lincoln Brigade" or not. The player might be permitted to say no to accepting compensation for the panay incident, possibly starting an embargo and or an interventionist slider move.

Quote:
-- the Great Depression

Entering 1936, the economy was improving. It was still in bad shape (over 20% unemployment), but improving. However, 1937 saw a major recession hit. It was almost a depression. It wiped out most of the gains of the previous few years, and lasted well into 1938. This had major political ramifications.
However, the player heavily investing in industry, building airfields and bases, and increasing infrastructure etc... should be able to mitigate or even eliminate this. He is "creating jobs" after all. Perhaps the player could seek more international trade agreements, or go for a more protectionist stance with different possible outcomes.

Quote:
-- Race relations

Blacks were resisting Jim Crow. What would become the civil rights movement was beginning to ferment. The Great Migration was underway in this period. Even throughout WW2, race problems were severe, and there was turbulence at the confluence of race and labor. The USA player should have domestic dissent to deal with throughout the war.
Here the player should have the option of either oppressing the blacks further, or bringing about the civil rights reforms early. Both would bring dissent in the short term, but the long term effects would vary wildly. For example: continuing current policies against the blacks would result in dissent from them, it would be small but would continue intermittently until at least the 1960's(should any game go so long); while bringing about true civil rights reform would give a large upfront hit but would after a few years increase productivity and population growth.

Quote:
-- Election cycles

Every two years, the USA goes through an election, and every four years it is a presidential election. These cause turbulence on the domestic front. This can be modeled.
I would recommend following the SMEP events for this. Perhaps they could be refined to allow policy change for dissent or something, but they mainly give us the chance to feel we get a little more input into our government, so would basically reduce dissent.

Quote:
These issues can be used to force the US player to make decisions that will impact the future. For example, early in the game, the labor issue explodes. The government had a decision to make. The decision for the player in broad terms is:

1) Support Labor
2) Support Management
3) Stay out of it.

Each choice has short-term and long-term consequences.

Easily every quarter the US player can be presented with a decision to make. It's not necessarily that one choice is good and one is bad. They will just be different. The goal is not to provide a "right path" that the player has to learn to follow, and a "wrong path" to avoid. Just different paths.

In future posts, the system will be set forth. Each major point will be supported by a reference to research materials.
The important thing here is not to lock the player into a straight jacket, but to allow real choices with real effects.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:35:48 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Yes, it was interesting. Sherman had many good ideas. But I think he gave up modding HOI II and is waiting for the next game.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
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