Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

EIR II (2009) Main Changes Options · View
cueball
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 12:56:04 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Durruti's Map modification:

In order to decrease bottlnecks, the new EIR will incorporate Durrutti's excelent map modification. The main changes have been made to France and Belgium, adding four new provinces. As well, there are now two provinces on the Spanish Border with France next to Dax. Also, some of the seazones have been rearranged to limit the range of land based air.



General Sherman's production system

A while back General Sherman pointed out that one of the problems with the HOI production concept is that it views the creation of divisions purely as a production issue, when in fact it is mostly a training issue. In the vanilla HOI system division production is absurdly fast, and when gearing kicks in we see things such as infantry divisions being pumped out in less than two months. So, the new production system increases the length of time of production but decreases the cost. In effect the IC/Days to produce a unit will not change, but it will take longer but be cheaper.

In general basic units, such as infantry take 6 months to train, while specialized units like Paratroopers, and tank and air divisions take between 7 and 9 months.

Doubtless this will have some impact on strategies dependent on full gearing bonuses.

Allied Manpower

The consensus is that the Allies are way too strong in the early game, and various solutions have been proposed, but in the main people seem to think that the UK simply has too much manpower.

So there are two major changes:

1) The "Relative Manpower" of all the major Allies (USA included) and the Commonwealth has be reduced to 50% or less, in the scenarios files, more or less in the same way that one does with IC_mod. The manpower efficiency will increase through the normal gearing events, until UK and France are producing normal manpower about the time that the war begins.

2) The entire UK army in India is locked into place, and will only be released at the time of the "Churchill becomes Prime Minister" event.

(No doubt someone will delete them for manpower and make them into tanks) Rolleyes

Mobilization:

Added I added three, one for Democracies, one for Fascist nations, and one for the Communist nations. Most of these techs will only be available to major countries. Pre-war mobilization is available to all.

All countries must first study "Pre-war Mobilization" as prerequisites for their specific ideological tech trees, which become available after they are at war. Here is what "Pre-war" mobilization looks like:



In the following thumbnails you can look at more details:


Tech Tree and a couple of techs


Most of the Soviet system.


Interceptors

Interceptor technology is advancing too quickly.

I have adjusted the tech tree for interceptor aircraft so that the new models are a year later. 38/40/42/44/46 as opposed to 37/39/41/43/45. As well, I have increased the research difficulty by about 20%. It will be a more difficult to pre-tech these in time for war.

Naval Bomber system

In addition to the changes to the seazones, which should help keep Naval Bombers mostly to coastal waters. I have dropped the system where Naval Attack factors are increased and just added these directly to the Models themselves.

Air/Naval and Naval

1) I have slightly increased the airdefence factors for the capital ships, and reduced their visibility slightly. They will be better able to defend themselves against attack from the air, and will be harder to find. The decrease in visibility will mean that naval combat will be slightly less frequent than it is now, as well.

2) I have deleted the CVL. CVL's are a good idea, and I really wanted to save them, but they are bugged and give the already powerful British Naval Doctrine way too much power overall.

Armour

I nerffed armour way too much in the last patch, and have increased its defensiveness, and its morale slightly in the new version.

Motorized

The motorized Infantry units were way too powerful overall. I have increased their softness by 5% and decreased their base moral, so that they take more time to reorganized after combat.

Buildings

1) Bases is build queue TC load modifier increased from 100 to 10000 to kill base exploits.

2) Airbases cost increased to 5, but build time reduced to 40.

Events:

1) France will now fall if 60% of Metropolitan France is in Axis hands, regardless of who owns Paris or Vichy.

2) Random events for the democracies have been made less damaging, and dissent hits have been cut in half.

Bugs

1) USA will now get the Blitzkreig "Air bonus" in 1942 with the "Regimental Combat Teams". Previously it only came in 1943 with "Mechanized Offensive" and not with "Combined Arms Defense" at all.

2) The bug which allowed for both Model 2 and 3 Interceptors to be produced at the same time has been fixed.

3) Ghent and Brugge (new province) will be VP provinces. This should ensure that the capital stays in Europe even after Brussels falls, which should eliminate some of the annoying supply problems there when Brussels falls.


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Anders
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:07:41 PM
 Generalfeldmarschall

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal2012 Good Cause Support MedalBanned in ActionAuthor of 7000th post

Joined: 3/9/2007
Posts: 13,057
Location: Auf das der Adler wieder fliegt
By removing the CVLs, you also prevent Germany from actually building a viable navy. It needs those CVLs to aid the Bismarck and Tirpitz.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
cueball
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:22:51 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
German navy should never be anything other than an attention getter for the British to keep some of the home fleet at home, imo. They say that the Tirpitz did more for the German war effort sitting in port than the Bismark did at the bottom of the Atlantic. This because it tied down more than its weight in ships keeping her bottled up, and away from the British shipping.

A solid German navy, in a game where the Italians don't sack their fleet, combined with tha powerful IJN is a serious global force and doesn't require the Germans to build more than one solid BB fleet, if that.

I have had considerable success with the German navy, without making it a force to compete with RN. It can harry and harrass, and should the Allies be so foolish as to attempt to hang on to Norway, or some such, it, combined with air power can do considerable damage to British ships.

The fact is that CVL's are bugged, and the effect you are talking about is one that only serves the Allies in the end by making their already existing BB fleets super-powerful in the face of the Japanese carrier fleets. In effect, yes, the Germans can make CVL's and make Tirpitz and Bismark stronger, at the expense of making all the 30 BB's that Britain and the USA have at start, twice as strong as they should be.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:15:49 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Buildings

1) Bases is build queue TC load modifier increased from 100 to 10000 to kill airbase exploits.

2) Airbases cost increased to 5, but build time reduced to 40.

Fixed

Cavalry not properly set up for beta patch, and the build time was vanilla.

I changed the patch link to this: EIR -- 2009 Beta-- EFFO it should now be checksum EFFO

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 9:48:47 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Mobilization:

Later today I will be making a system of technologies that are activated soon after any major country goes to war that increase the mobiliazation potential (manpower) of the country but also have certain negative side effects, such as a negative slider moves for professional army.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Saturday, December 27, 2008 3:17:46 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Still working on this mobilization issue. Should be done today or tomorrow.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
hiensen
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 12:14:48 AM
 Generalleutnant

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalAuthor of 18000th Post

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 1,331
Location: Pau, France
Excellent steve.You've had a very good reading of everyone concerns.

However I have a few more suggestions :

- making divisions longer to build won't it automatically make germany to stack an unlimited amount of manpower ?
Lots of people here and in other communities have had concerns about the incredibly high german daily mp growth.I have always though that you should nerf the german mp growth and simply add some mobilization events like +70 mp and -1% prod efficiency triggered by the loss(or encirclement) of key cities.

- decrease the cost (5->3) and increase the build time (+60 days) for the coastal fortress so they become worth to make in a build long term vision and will increase the chances to see a german finally starting the atlantic wall.Holy (@increase their build time by 50%during the peacetime so nobody like uk or italy will zerg coastal forts from 36)

- how is hardcoded the dug in bonus ? It would be awesome to get rid of the air magnet divisions placed in a specific number of provinces.I could list them if you wish and think you can do something about it, I know them all.One Tooth Grin

- decrease a liiitle bit the upgrading time for the axis armies.I fully understand your point of having different models of units in the groundbattle but what in fact happen is germany fighting with 36 inf vs full inf 41 and mots II in france despite having a large part of it total ic allocated in those upgrades.
The gap between free market nations and cp axis nations is a way too big.Not to mention ussr that build directly inf 41 and mots II from 1940 and do not have that much issues with upgrading until mid 42 while germany have to upgrade his whole army and air to compete the ussr clones 1941 soldiers.

- adopt a polish rule that says no more then 8 bombers operating in the same sea area.It will avoid the 50 navs blob (huh so many of them the overstack penalty is bypassed and experience to all planes in a row).
SilverBolt
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:11:10 AM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/24/2008
Posts: 848
I dont think German Manpwoer Should be Decreased..Increased maybe.Germany should have about 2000 manpower to work with and i guess that like 30-40 would go to atlantic wall.Thats accounting for a 200-300 manpower loss in france.While USSR = can field 400 divisions/brigaded.Add in the fact that battles take longer and ussr should have by mid 41 if he researches doctrines roughyl 80 organization compared to 110 germany? Battles drain far more manpower than in vanilla and germany will be on offensive.

Italy can field 100 divisions herself but 50 should guard italy or so.That leaves axis with about 240 divisions against a ussr strenght of nearly 400(41 divs) that can get supplies for usa and produce Airpower only and get air superiority or atleast defuse the german CAS/TACs.
And germany needs to constantly reinforce her atlantic wall cuz marine stacking is 9(?)

Dunno about france situation there has been nerfed.Altho germany should have no problem upgrading 39 inf to 41 when barbarrosa starts with a little sacrifice.

Oh and mons and namur arnt connected.Shouldnt they be? And liege/reims are altho they are not.
And i done some testing and it seems a mech 42 can crush a armour III..with armour on defensive... hmz?
cueball
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:25:13 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
All godd comments thanks.

I have been working out a system for "mobilization doctrines", which become active when a country enters war. There are two lines to these doctrines, one for democracies and one for authoritarian regiemes. The ones for democracies are a series of three "drafts", which add dissent, move "Professional Army" sliders to drafted army. More or less the same for the mobilization events for the authoritarian regiemes except they take slightly less research, and give less ongoing manpower bonus, in favour of direct manpower boosts.

I will be posting a Beta version with this system in place in the next day or so, so that people can get the idea.
hiensen wrote:


- decrease the cost (5->3) and increase the build time (+60 days) for the coastal fortress so they become worth to make in a build long term vision and will increase the chances to see a german finally starting the atlantic wall.Holy (@increase their build time by 50%during the peacetime so nobody like uk or italy will zerg coastal forts from 36).


As for the Atlantic Wall, I think in the sense of the European theater this would make a great deal of sense, except this might have unfortunate effects in the Pacific because the USA, and even the Japanese might really be able to exploit cheap coastal forts. A while back I set up an Atlantic Wall event system that reduced the cost for coastal forts for Germany alone, as a kind of "mega project" bonus that Germany would get, based on the idea that costs would be decreased for such a large project.

Still not convinced that it should be done though. I never instituted it, because it edges close to breaking one of my philosophical principles, which is "no freebies" and that if a player wants something, they should pay for it.

I think the reason the Atlantic Wall never gets built is because the German player maximizes his effort in the Eastern Front regardless of how cheap coastal forts are. I think the German player would continue to put everything he can into the east front. This brings us back to manpower, since the big advantage of forts is that they increase defense, while costing no manpower, at all. Forts would be more common if Germany had no manpower left by 1941, but, of course, when this does happen the Germany player concentrates on upgrading, so even then I doubt the forts will get built.

Hard to say, what to do about that. Perhaps German players should just build the things if they want them. There are some advantages already to building forts, MP savings being an important one.

hiensen wrote:


- decrease a liiitle bit the upgrading time for the axis armies.I fully understand your point of having different models of units in the groundbattle but what in fact happen is germany fighting with 36 inf vs full inf 41 and mots II in france despite having a large part of it total ic allocated in those upgrades.
The gap between free market nations and cp axis nations is a way too big.Not to mention ussr that build directly inf 41 and mots II from 1940 and do not have that much issues with upgrading until mid 42 while germany have to upgrade his whole army and air to compete the ussr clones 1941 soldiers.


Unfortunately, as far as I know, upgrading can not be made nation specific. If it could that would solve a lot of problems, but it doean't. Mad

Enter longer division build times, I think this will have an impact on the FM/PA bonus that the Democracies will get, since it is they who primarily benefit from long serials because their upgrades are so cheap. Longer build times will decrease the speed that gearing accumulates. Also, the central planning countries depend far less on gearing, and more on mass production just prior to war.

SilverBolt wrote:
Dunno about france situation there has been nerfed.Altho germany should have no problem upgrading 39 inf to 41 when barbarrosa starts with a little sacrifice.

And i done some testing and it seems a mech 42 can crush a armour III..with armour on defensive... hmz?


Looking at the raw statistics, I don't see how that would be possible 1 v 1 unless other factors were contributing.


Code:
# Improved Mechanized Division - 2 - [b]3751.2 IC/Days[/b]

model =
{ cost                = 15.63
  buildtime           = 240
  manpower            = 10
  maxspeed            = 10
  defaultorganisation = 40
  morale              = 15
  defensiveness       = 30
  toughness           = 30
  softness            = 65
  suppression         = 2
  airdefence          = 6
  softattack          = 16
  hardattack          = 6
  airattack           = 4
  transportweight     = 30
  supplyconsumption   = 1.8
  fuelconsumption     = 4
  speed_cap_art       = 11
  speed_cap_eng       = 11
  speed_cap_at        = 11
  speed_cap_aa        = 11
  upgrade_time_factor = 0.5
  upgrade_cost_factor = 1.0
}

# 3 - Improved Medium Tank - [b]6720 IC/Days[/b]
model =
{ cost                = 28
  buildtime           = 240
  manpower            = 7
  maxspeed            = 10
  defaultorganisation = 40
  morale              = 15
  defensiveness       = 25
  toughness           = 30
  softness            = 40
  suppression         = 1
  airdefence          = 3
  softattack          = 14
  hardattack          = 13
  airattack           = 3
  transportweight     = 40
  supplyconsumption   = 2.6
  fuelconsumption     = 7
  speed_cap_art       = 11
  speed_cap_eng       = 11
  speed_cap_at        = 11
  speed_cap_aa        = 11
  upgrade_time_factor = 0.5
  upgrade_cost_factor = 1.0
}


In anycase, 42 Mech should be able to give 1939 armour a good fight, no? I was thinking they should be about of equal value in terms of IC days spent.

SilverBolt wrote:

Oh and mons and namur arnt connected.Shouldnt they be? And liege/reims are altho they are not.


Thanks, I will look into that.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
SilverBolt
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:22:17 AM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/24/2008
Posts: 848
thats lvl IV tank i meant lvl III tank aka the one with 11 hard attack and 12 soft attack.

edit: laon is connected to amiens altho map shows it shouldnt.
durruti
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 10:35:31 AM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 12/19/2008
Posts: 468
Location: Sweden
did you change the province_names file cue? That might be the reason you dont see the connections.

edit: see what you mean. I made the decision to link amiens and laon. imagine there's an intersection point there between laon, amiens, compegnie and valenciennes ;-)

cueball
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:15:14 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Yes, I did change the Province_names.CSV file, however, I did not closely look at the original definitions for the original provinces, so there may be some errors there, nor did I look closely at the Adjacent_Def.CSV file. If you guys notice any other things that should be looked at, let me know.

Thanks... back to work now...

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
hiensen
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 6:42:38 PM
 Generalleutnant

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalAuthor of 18000th Post

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 1,331
Location: Pau, France
SilverBolt wrote:
I dont think German Manpwoer Should be Decreased..Increased maybe.Germany should have about 2000 manpower to work with and i guess that like 30-40 would go to atlantic wall.Thats accounting for a 200-300 manpower loss in france.While USSR = can field 400 divisions/brigaded.Add in the fact that battles take longer and ussr should have by mid 41 if he researches doctrines roughyl 80 organization compared to 110 germany? Battles drain far more manpower than in vanilla and germany will be on offensive.


For the few eir games I played and the ones I seen, germany don't have to worry about it manpower....Those games germany have been on the move all the time and producing twice what uk were producing with a global manpower stabilized disapointed me a lot.And not only me, you know silver I also brought here the report from the others groups playing eir and the main criticism about eir is that german insane mp growth, and you hear that from a player that like to play germany above any other country.

SilverBolt wrote:
Italy can field 100 divisions herself but 50 should guard italy or so.That leaves axis with about 240 divisions against a ussr strenght of nearly 400(41 divs) that can get supplies for usa and produce Airpower only and get air superiority or atleast defuse the german CAS/TACs.
And germany needs to constantly reinforce her atlantic wall cuz marine stacking is 9(?)


Those are abstractive informations because I never seen an atlantic wall exactly same to the other, I'm proud of an heavy wall and weak forces in the east (which explain my habit to stack oil and rares) some others make a thin wall focusing on east front or airforce etc etc whatever is going on the german player do not worry about his manpower at all and that's something I do not agree with.



SilverBolt wrote:
Dunno about france situation there has been nerfed.Altho germany should have no problem upgrading 39 inf to 41 when barbarrosa starts with a little sacrifice.


Yes adding the fact that uk will be nerfed it's an additional reason to nerf german manpower, lots of people complained about the allies having too much mp to work with and axis players didn't about german mp since it's an advantage that is not immediatelly noticeable on the groundbattle compared to the allies mp that is more easily detected when we're on the french campaign.
With the uk mp growth nerfed it's even one more reason to do something about the german one.Rolleyes

durruti
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:33:09 PM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 12/19/2008
Posts: 468
Location: Sweden
cueball wrote:
Yes, I did change the Province_names.CSV file, however, I did not closely look at the original definitions for the original provinces, so there may be some errors there, nor did I look closely at the Adjacent_Def.CSV file. If you guys notice any other things that should be looked at, let me know.

Thanks... back to work now...


Yah no problem with the prov names. I think i made a very narrow border between the two provinces and when the river is added it can give the impression that they are not adjacent. (i havent thought of them as not adjacent though)
SilverBolt
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:02:03 PM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/24/2008
Posts: 848
200 german divisions + 50 italian divisions vs 400 soviet divisions and defensive is far more powerful in eir than in vanilla cuz last time i struck 150 divisions vs 16 divisions in gibraltar and lost.Also battles take longer and reinforcements can be bought easily.So...german situation in ussr is kinda balanced german manpower shouldnt be decreased because ussr already gets tons of manpower pre-war and a -30 or 40 divisions on the eastern front is not a good idea.
cueball
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:27:14 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Well, the Gibraltar thing may very well have been possible. The key is wearing down the position, and never letting the enemy reorganize, or letting the forts regenerate. You did not have air superiority, which meant you could not interdict the forts down either. By rotating the troops, and staying firm on not overstacking and most of all keeping up a continuous attack so the British could not reorganize might have won the day. You tried short probing attacks, and it seems when it appeared you did not have immediate superiority, you called it off.

Using fortress busters leaders with Mountain, and most of all using air to interdict the forts down, and destroy infrastructure, (so that even if you do need to call off the first attack the defenders can not reorganize) might have won the day.

That said, your manpower losses would have been extreme.

We could play it out some time, and see what would happen. I'd be interested to see the result... now... back to work...

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
SilverBolt
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:31:25 PM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/24/2008
Posts: 848
getting air superiority over UK in mid 40 is really hard thing to do and wouldve required huge investements.Unfortunaltly i had no clue u went soft on airpower production.
hiensen
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:42:26 PM
 Generalleutnant

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalAuthor of 18000th Post

Joined: 1/27/2008
Posts: 1,331
Location: Pau, France
SilverBolt wrote:
200 german divisions + 50 italian divisions vs 400 soviet divisions and defensive is far more powerful in eir than in vanilla cuz last time i struck 150 divisions vs 16 divisions in gibraltar and lost.Also battles take longer and reinforcements can be bought easily.So...german situation in ussr is kinda balanced german manpower shouldnt be decreased because ussr already gets tons of manpower pre-war and a -30 or 40 divisions on the eastern front is not a good idea.


There's not a gib hidden in every east front province.Since the armors ain't that nerfed anymore you can work against those 400 divisions in east front.
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:07:52 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
Well, part of this discussion hinges on the fact that Waffen went for total conquest on all fronts, while Hiensen carefully avoids overextending his resources in order to focus solely on defeating the USSR, the only serious land power in Europe, other than Germany.

In the case of the Waffen Germany game, Germany really smoked Allies in 39, freeing up huge military resources for the East front, only to basically throw that opportunity away by making it necessary to garisson Spain because of the continuance of an Allied front in Spain.

SilverBolt wrote:
getting air superiority over UK in mid 40 is really hard thing to do and wouldve required huge investements.Unfortunaltly i had no clue u went soft on airpower production.


I would not discount the possibility that you could have defeated that force, with different tactics and astute use of leaders, even without air power. I would be more than happy to test my hypothesis.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 12:23:48 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
One point I will make, is that I did not change the basic manpower statistics of any nation, except for China. I did adjust the manpower overall through global modifiers applicable to all countries. In other words the basic relative manpower between the SU and Germany has not really changed, I think, and the appearance that Germany is making more MP than in vanilla, when compared to the SU must have other causes than a shift in basic manpower resources. I did not increase German manpower, nor did I decrease that of the Soviet Union.

... at least not on purpose....

Vanilla: SU, 1.29 daily growth at start, and Germany .67 daily growth. In the last EIR patch, SU had 0.77 daily growth and Germany had .37, daily growth at start. So, relatively, at least at start the SU is still out-producing German manpower at a rate of 2 to 1.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
TheWretchedMass
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:51:42 AM
 Major

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 5/22/2008
Posts: 461
SilverBolt wrote:
getting air superiority over UK in mid 40 is really hard thing to do and wouldve required huge investements.Unfortunaltly i had no clue u went soft on airpower production.


The reason you had no clue is because the spy system is screwed up and needs fixing badly, shouldnt be so easy to eliminate spies.
durruti
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:54:08 PM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 12/19/2008
Posts: 468
Location: Sweden
is it possible maybe to make the (imo crappy) spy missions very unlikely to succeed and at the same time make killing spies expensive and/or harder ? Just make spies spy so to speak.
TheWretchedMass
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 6:22:11 PM
 Major

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 5/22/2008
Posts: 461
durruti wrote:
is it possible maybe to make the (imo crappy) spy missions very unlikely to succeed and at the same time make killing spies expensive and/or harder ? Just make spies spy so to speak.


And make annoying missions like sabotage industry very hard. Sounds like a good plan.
SilverBolt
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:54:12 PM
 Centurion

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/24/2008
Posts: 848
and like all nations have all their army in their capital and all navy in one port to avoid 10 mins organization especially for ussr/uk/italy. :-)
TheWretchedMass
Posted: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:56:42 PM
 Major

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 5/22/2008
Posts: 461
maybe just copy MEMs spy system steve?
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.