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Ederon
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:34:45 PM
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As I'll play France initially, I'd like to know your insights and advices. I've never played France, just once in on HoI2 MP...
Forgiven
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 9:45:38 PM
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Me neither really, from what I remember though, they have sizable manpower pool for allied nation, lowest conscription law is easy pick, then spam 'some' cheap troop, be it infantry/garrison/militia (I'm not sure tech/practical wise which is optimal...)
Maginot line can be broken, but it's not easy thing to do, if french have defence reinforce minister, light troops on line and reserve behind should be enough to deter any assault there, attack through the historical or swizz route is lot more worrysome (the italian border forts are decent enough)...
I suppose swizz border could be home for those mountaineers (hmm, damn, I have played france at least once to remember they have some...) so they can move in to switzerland side of the border should germans make the attempt (good fort line there in mountains...)

Other than that, I don't know if the military access thingy was fixed in SF and you can preposition to belgium or not?
...but I think france should be mainly the 'cheap troops' and BEF should fill in the role of offensive reserve against whatever sprearhead they try to push through (?)

And I suppose it's now impossible to get spain join axis if it's AI this early, but should keep eye on that anyways, I might be wrong...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
teamgene
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:30:47 PM
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I have not played it before either, but I would pull all my troops out of the rest of the world and bring them to france. I would leave hqs at VP locations in north africa and med as the vp total is 4 each I think. Also, want to discuss with UK player on he would want to garrison them?

Other than that, I would build up my leadership and probably on leave 4 or 5 in research to research stuff like infantry warfare that doesn't require upgrading. I wouldn't bother producing anything other than maybe AA at Paris. Everything else goes into upgrading army. I would turn upgrades off for fleet etc... to focus on getting as much of the army upgraded as possible before the fireworks start.

Oh, I would also get my spies to 10 as quick as possible and build up national unity.

Anyway thats my two cents worth. Take it or leave it as you like.
teamgene
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:37:18 PM
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The rest of us, may want to allow debt to france and sell supplies to him so he doesn't have to use ic there.
Ederon
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 10:37:34 PM
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I was thinking about researching one level of AT then build some. Other then that keep Two-Year Draft (initial law) and bump up officer ratio while investing 3-5 leadership to research of said AT and land doctrines.

Interesting idea to go with upgrades, I'll try that in SP and see how I'm able to face Axis afterwards.

Biggest question remains: produce units sacrificing officer ratio or rather not and have higher officers and less troops?

Something to note: France has no reinforce change minister/chief of staff...
Anders
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:46:55 PM
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Having the UK garrison overseas VP territory like Tunisia seems like a good idea. Using the combined fleets to scour the Mediterranean for Italian ships might also be a good way to prevent African landings.
I would put garrisons and militia on the Maginot Picket Fence and on the Italian frontier, and the best troops beyond the Ardennes, to attempt a counter-thrust once the Nazi war machine moves into France proper.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

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Ederon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:14:59 AM
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France start with shitty army, level I everything.

It looks like I'd be able to upgrade whole land army by June 1939, officer ratio will be around 160% that time. Building AT brigades.

I'm yet gonna try the other strategy of building up numbers instead of quality.
Forgiven
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:33:21 AM
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How armorized is the german army going to be, I faintly remember the need to build lot of infantry just to have something at borders (you have more recent experience, how much armor did you have in last game when attacking france?) -> just making sure the AT is necessary, or if Art would be better perhaps, or mix?.

Edit: oh and it's my impression that UK most likely does not have spare troops for something like garrisoning (french) africa, especially when it upon vichy event would turn 'hostile' vichy territory and just lead to need for evacuation, always a risky business...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
Ederon
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:00:11 PM
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France starts with three full armies and one motorized corps (with three light armor divisions). That's for very thin line on the frontier with Ger/Ita and should I also cover Belgium/Dutch, it's real stretch. However if BEF takes care or at least aid us in Lower Countries, we might be albe to hold of Germans for some time. Crucial is unit circulation.

If they go through Switzerland, I'd like to establish line of defense in Swiss as continuation of Maginot and southern front. There are level 4/5 forts and if we jump in as soon as they Dow, we might benefit from it. However it needs at least two corps.

So unless I build army, it'll be though number-wise. But will have better armies.

One question: does practical influence speed/cost of upgrades?

Would UK radar in Dover see German troops 2-3 provinces deep behind my border? If so, I'd like to ask for level 10 radar ASAP, so we can adjust defenses according to German deployment. Thx
Forgiven
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:13:15 PM
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I've never been much of a radar fan, I consider myself too prone to read too much into enemy movements, but yes, I think one in Dover would be worth building Evil Grin (And I'll confirm the range once I find time to do the test builds)

Hmm, I'm not sure of practical, alas, somehow I doubt it does...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
Forgiven
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:40:43 PM
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Alas, no, Dover radar at lvl 10 (with no futher tech upgrades, I don't think radar ones can be finished in time anyways...) shows only to Bonn, Köln, Düsseldorf line, and barely that, I don't get good read on german units, but Belgian army is shown fine Sick
(Headquarters are visible all the way to Hungary and Rome but I'm not sure how much that really helps Baby )

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
Ederon
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:25:16 PM
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I'll look at it and let you know if it's worth it. But whether pre-Vichy or after, you should have level 10 radar in Southern England. You'll see German defenses along the coast and beyond it. Just load up last save from previous game and have a look at UK/Ger.
Ederon
Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:38:40 AM
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I've just loaded up August 1939 and February 1940 saves from previous game and I've found out:

  • France went approximately the same way as I'm planning: upgrades, almost no units built with few differences I'll mention soon
  • they had about 220 brigades in August '39, while I managed to end up at ca 260.
  • their officer ratio was 129% in Aug 39, I managed some 160%
  • we as Germany had 330 brigades in Feb 1940. With Some 30 or 40 armored. I've ended up at about 40 AT brigades in Aug 39 as France.

    Apparently they did too much research (Schwerpunkt and Blitzkried for instance) and invested too little to officers.

    To make something out of it, I need to know how initial push through Benelux went. I think I wasn't present that session.
  • Ederon
    Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:19:41 AM
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    What do you say to this:

    I'll produce 10 AT brigades and 20 armored brigades by the August 1939. My officers by that time will be around 140%. When the war starts, I'll continue to build one more armored corps and focus on getting officers topped.

    In November 1939 at about 160%, in early January over 170%. In February one new armored corps. That'd mean I'll have 238-253 brigades to fight Germans at the most probable time of their attack, which is between November and January.
    Forgiven
    Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 9:35:46 AM
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    Those numbers are so big I don't see you needing the ill equipped BEF at all LOL

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
    Gen.Schuermann
    Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:28:17 AM
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    that sounds very solid, daniel.

    I will present you a min-maxxed soviet buildup up to 1941 tonight. I stubbornly refuse to not build IC and ruin the SU from day one Wink

    In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
    Forgiven
    Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 12:13:12 PM
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    Ok, so I checked the French fleet and I'm happy and annoyed at the same time, it's bit difficult to make it into a sensible force mix, but I made it into something that looks reasonable to me, the goal is ofcourse to destroy the french fleet in battle instead of sinking it in a port, with possibly protecting the Pride of the fleet Lorraine from destruction...

    Thus, as expedited forces cannot be rearranged, I would love to receive them in following format if you really wish to expedite them...

    'the Bearn' commanded by, Abrial;
    Bearn (cv)
    Dunkerque (bc)
    Strasbourg (bc)
    Algerie (ca)
    All lvl IV light cruisers
    1 lvl III light cruiser
    1 lvl III destroyer
    (12 ships, 17% positioning penalty)

    'the Provence' commanded by, Darlan;
    Provence (bb)
    Bretagne (bb)
    Dusquesne (ca)
    Suffren (ca)
    4 lvl II light cruisers
    4 lvl III destroyers
    (12 ships, 18% positioning penalty)

    'the Lorraine' commanded by, Gensoul;
    Lorraine (bb)
    Colbert (ca)
    Dupleix (ca)
    Foch (ca)
    Tourville (ca)
    1 lvl I light cruiser
    3 lvl I destroyers
    4 lvl II destroyers
    (13! ships, 6% posioning penalty)

    Keep the transports, subs, well, split into groups of 3 would be good enough, but you could aswell set them to convoy raid the Italian supply line to Africa yourself (?)

    I'll try to keep those french fleets where the fighting is hot, so they'll participate any major operation I field, or indeed, sail against Japs should they join early, while keeping the Lorraine fleet as much as possible 'behind the line' but still close to fight as reserve.


    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
    Ederon
    Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:18:44 PM
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    I'm gonna try to polish my builds now and present you with final solution. I'm expecting the worse - which is no German excesses before war, no gearings, just starting neutrality.

    In my testruns I don't bother much with trades. In this field I might need some help from US/UK whoever, as I can't afford to spend a tiniest bit of IC on supplies. Selling oil is one thing how to achieve it, but if I can sell some license...it'll greatly help. Because for me, any leadership invested in diplomacy is a waste. I need those for few key techs and most importantly for officers. Each trade costs 3 DI. I need to buy 150-200 supplies, which alone is 12 DI (24 leadership-days). And for selling stuff I might need 30 DI or even more (I count with 60 DI need if I go all by myself, 48 DI for selling - 16 attempts to get 200 supplies worth of money). And 60 DI is my whole leadership for 10 days. It doesn't look that bad, but it's also means about 1000 officers and that make a difference.

    Anyway, those fleets for UK will be made as you wish them to be. I'll operate subs myself, as giving you all 1 sub flotillas would cost to much DI.
    Forgiven
    Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2010 12:39:28 PM
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    You could go sneaky and add all 3 fleets under a HQ and then expedite that HQ, I think it should work...
    Then again, I'm not sure how cost goes for a HQ worth of Officers vs Leadership for 2 expeditions...

    Edit; and I think you should prod for lend lease, I've also made most my plans for 'who needs to produce supplies' (UK can manage from reserves for 2-3 months, with luck someone will want to trade them for resources before then...)

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
    Ederon
    Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:19:47 PM
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    Sure, one HQ would be no problem to expedite.

    The main difference between UK and France is that France does not have the resources to trade with.

    Anyway, I'm tired of testruns. What I'm gonna do is: build 10x2 ARM, 10x AT and 1xAC to make it 10 so they can make my 2xARM+1xAC divisions. Quite frankly, I don't know what my officers will be because now I got completely different results with 2.03c.

    One dilemma is whether to chase -1 ARM width tech as that one is probably one of those which make the difference between Allies and Germans. It gives them practically double the strength, armored strength to make it worse. However it's obvious I won't be able to complete this tech by 41 (and only if I concentrate on it). Wacko

    Other option is to leave it be and instead make my armor just a "somewhat mobile maginot line", with AT (not TD).

    Hell, one more week and I'd be crazy developing all those strategies as well... Crazy
    Forgiven
    Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:26:44 PM
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    Hmm, I don't know, the arm width -1 tech has never been that great in my opinion, it's only really useful for very concentrated attacks, and when lenght of fronts is what it is, I hardly ever run out of combat width to be honest, though I suppose battle of france might be the exception to this rule, hmn.

    Edit: and nevermind that HQ idea, 100 officers cost lot more leadership than the 2 extra diplomacy points.

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
    Ederon
    Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2010 2:41:56 PM
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    When you are attacker it might not be such a problem, because you can extend front width by opening up another attack vectors, but for defender it's quite the opposite. However given it's availability no earlier then early '41, I'll dump it and concentrate elsewhere. By that time it'll be either over, one way or the other.
    Forgiven
    Posted: Sunday, August 29, 2010 3:03:16 PM
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    As to the supply thing, as I won't be producing any I can't know how much I'll have available, but if the axis get sneaky and only plan on like, trading with just the soviets, I'm quite happy to use soviets (or US) as middleman to pawn my resources for supplies. Sure, it'll cost some leadership, but if you are asked if you have any free resources by the Axis, just say yes and forward the trade to UK, even while I'm already at war with the Axis, doesn't really matter to me (though if convoy losses get too high in north sea we'll have to see about abolishing that...).

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
    Ederon
    Posted: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 4:14:38 PM
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    France went the way of more officers and less research then I originally planned. For this reason I switched to volunteer army later (in late January), which means my 10 arm divisions will be ready in mid September. However, I have two additional coming out in May (2xARM+1xAC). Those were not planned an are result of extra IC I got from Italian DoW on Yugo.

    My officers with no HQ's are at over 150%. Currently giving just 2.3 leadership into officers (6 officers a day). I'm doing it regardless of -50% penalty, as there is nothing I want to research reallly. Though I might use that leadership on DI of we need to influence somewhere (Spain?, are we doing anything there).

    As soon as war starts, I'll swtich all but maybe 3 leadership to officers again.

    To save officers I've also grouped most of my troops into 4-brigade divisions. That's true for infantry. AT infantry is 2xINF+1xAT to make up 10 combat width with two regular 4xINF divisions.

    Anyway, my army is almost upgraded, at the moment I'm in need of some 17 IC in upgrades, investing 10 IIRC. I'll need some upgrades once my tanks come out of production as I'm working on guns and armor, but that'll be probably already at war, so I'll have plenty of IC to spend on that.
    Forgiven
    Posted: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 5:05:23 PM
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    Aye, I was impressed with the officer ratio, wish I could even change from volunteer army Angel Grin (And I'd love to see how much cash the spanish have, they are selling supplies all around it seems LOL )

    Spain oh spain.. hmmm
    I'm torn, hmm, wait it isn't even close at this time is it?
    I've always been against getting any AI allies, I don't trust them, I'll say we let AI attack the spain (and then defend) or leave it neutral (my that would actually be quite smart call from axis, one I never realized)...
    ...besides, I almost want to lose gibraltar, if I can't kill subs from mediterranean.

    If you really need to waste that leadership on something somewhat useful, send me more spies Evil Grin

    Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
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