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teamgene
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:51:20 PM
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This may be insane, but I am very tempted to throw 4-5 escort carriers with CAGs into the USA build queue at game start. This would give me a very odd second carrier fleet, but if working as a support fleet rather than a Task Force or Carrier group, could tip the scales. Its the only real way I can get the USA to match potential Japanese carrier strengths in 39. To build actual carriers would take a year longer and more IC.

Anders
Posted: Friday, August 20, 2010 11:57:19 PM
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To my untrained eyes this looks like a reasonable way to min-max.

Now, for Australia, should I focus on a surface navy or submarines?

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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teamgene
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 12:22:16 AM
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This is just my opinion, but I would just build transports. Then just generally be where the japanese are not. Make them defend all those british/dutch islands they try to take.
Ederon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:37:41 AM
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Yes, I'd build CVLs initially for two reasons: First because they take less time to complete thus give you practical faster. Second because you can research proper carrier techs in the meantime and start producing more advanced carriers once CVLs finish and give you all the practical.
Anders
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 1:38:51 AM
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Having now played a few months of Sheepland, I think Australia is playable and can actually make some small difference if the Royal Navy can guarantee there will be no surprise landings by Japan until about 1940, which is about the time it will take to get an army/navy up to size.
Changed my avatar again to fit Tongue

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
teamgene
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 2:42:59 AM
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One option is to have Australia concentrate on army so its there for defense, then have UK/USA loan the ships needed.


Concerning our main strategy. I would like to suggest that if Japan tries to go to war same time as Germany we all (SU too) jump Japan. Soviets can blanket a lot of the Japanese mainland with their TACs. If done right, we could overwhelm them if we all strike together. This could potentially get SU much more leadership than the standard, finland, sweden, norway runs. It would cause the axis to possibly try an early barbarosa, which just may leave an opening then for a UK/USA second front early.

I know this sounds insane, but if SU would forgo IC building and build t34's instead, I believe then the commitment by SU does not have to be great, just toss all those light tanks and cavs etc...at them. Add some transports and SU might even be able to invade Japan with a little luck. No doubt, UK/USA could sucker their fleet away from home for the invasion.

It could be a massive failure, but I think this would be a blast! Think of SU bombing the mainland, striking into Machuria. UK, seeking a beachhead in China to let all those motorised units loose! USA striking Japanese island and threaten mainland too. Australia, striking japanese islands as well.

Ederon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 3:15:58 AM
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I really like it. We should investigate our possibilities in this direction in more detail. Sergeant
Anders
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:21:19 AM
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teamgene wrote:
[Insane Plan that will most likely result in Axis Instawin]

I like it too!Fidel

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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Forgiven
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 10:57:49 AM
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Uhhuh, I'm not sure I really like the idea, you see, soviet army is in awful shape whenever germany starts the war, I can almost guarantee that...
...and Japanese navy, is if anything, stronger than royal navy (carrier advantage), which also needs to cover the home isles and medi, atleast until Kriegsmarine and Regia Marina have been 'neutralized' , while I in theory approve of crazy tactics, I'm not sure that's one we can pull off...

As to Royal Navy covering australia, god I hope I don't have to, I suppose US can't due to neutrality, say, guarantee australia and new zealand, should make them japanese think twice...?
...but of course, if Japan happens to join early, RN will have to send something to pacific, probably a lot of somethings too, and leave say, mediterranean to british submarines (Italian convoy situation is awful, if they even attempt fight in africa without properly stocking up, it's bound to fail, I'm not really worried of the african theater due to that, 2-3 corps should be enough to hold egypt/suez/middle-east, or at the very least recapture them once italians can no longer provide supplies...)

But I'm hoping and praying that initially Germans and Italians would give me chance to sink their tiny fleets, they may be too smart to leave the port, but let's see, that would allow for proper match against Japan, if I have to maintain presence in west I doubt I can do much more than sortie to any landing sites Japan chooses to attempt in pacific...
...Thus my ability to prevent landings in Australian territory will be limited, but I'll sure make the attempt should the need arise...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
teamgene
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 4:32:37 PM
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Individually you are right. But the object is to overload the system. What I mean is that we make japan have to be everywhere. They can't, so they have to pick and choose. Even if victories in a sea battle, generally a carrier fleet is not able to immediately go and engage another carrier fleet, much less the distances.

Yes, I am aware of how weak SU is and I am also aware of what Japan starts with. SU has a lot of cav larm and ac that are of little value in europe, but huge value in asia. Japan has virtual no fast units. As they move to face SU that should leave openings for UK/USA to land, grab some ports and send small fast units racing through china or make a landing on Mainland.

Individually it is insane. Collectively, I believe it can work and without us having to throw the kitchen sink at them. It would require all of SU airforce and perhaps navy, but after that, not that many first line troops. The object would be to the break the lines then move fast enough that Japan cannot reform them again in China.

Either way it would put Japan on its heals which means that UK india is safe and if done right even Malaysia. UK would not have to commit any more than what would be required for the defense of same, except perhaps if willing, some fast units to land in china if an opening appears and race across the countryside. something like a AC/MOT that is low on supply and fuel and will lose every battle, but no matter, it just takes off again in another direction.

Again, I know this is not the safe thing to do and perhaps not even the smart thing to do, but it could be the very fun thing to do, hehe.
Anders
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 5:26:42 PM
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I'm all for it. The worst that could happen is that we start Monday VIII a month or so earlier.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Ederon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:53:39 PM
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I like novel strategies.
Anders
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 7:15:56 PM
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Somebody has to try it sometime.
but if Japan doesn't follow up Germany's DOW, and instead bides his time.... nah, not likely; It's been Axis victory almost every time Japan joins early, hasn't it?


"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Ederon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:47:30 PM
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For Japan it is best to go against Allies as soon as USA joins the war. Otherwise prolonging peace doesn't make sense from Jpas point of view and only give Allies advantage.
Forgiven
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:15:50 PM
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Ok, let me rephrase my objection to picking on japan...

1. if soviet officer ratio is over 90% at the time of invasion of Poland, I'm shocked, thus the divisions can be shattered...
2. if I were playing Germany and Soviets joined the war at that point against Japan, I'd probably pass on France and hold siegfried line with Italian assistance and try to push straight to moscow, and, well, I think it would succeed...
... + unless we actually take the home isles away from japanese, their loss ain't that big, now if you want to raid Tokyo I'm in for that op...

..and indeed, if USA stays out, Japan might aswell, but who knows, I pray USA can enter the war when Japan decides to do so, would be huge relief for the pacific...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
Ederon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:32:16 PM
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Forgiven wrote:
2. if I were playing Germany and Soviets joined the war at that point against Japan, I'd probably pass on France and hold siegfried line with Italian assistance and try to push straight to moscow, and, well, I think it would succeed...

We must test this. How would M-R affect this?
Forgiven
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 9:47:42 PM
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Last I heard dowing some other alliance member ignores non agression pacts (ie, you could DoW Mongolia or Tannu Tuva to get to soviets as Germany...) somewhat exploity in those cases but I'm quite sure it would actually make sense in this case...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
teamgene
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:29:44 AM
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Yes an ally can declare war to get around non aggression pact. Thats what happened last game. Germany couldn't declare war, so I did as Italy. Because the way the game unfolded, not unrealistic as Italy went into turkey after russian invasion, same for romania. russia in protest cut off all trade with us. Our economy would have ground to a halt but once Gibraltar was taken was able to get rares from Japan.

If russia does not build factories, which is a waste of IC when the games are decided in 41 or 42, and builds Armor units it can survive that German attack in 39. However, there is nothing that says Russia has to attack instantly. We could wait for the germans to be committed in France, wait til after Finland and the baltic states are taken, then jump. I am willing to bet Germany will not have enough panzers to overrun Russia yet and they sure would not be able to run over russia in 39 AND keep UK out of their backyard in France.

Now I am not saying its what we have to do, but do remember that the players running Germany right now may be a little gun shy, so might not be willing to just jump in without a massive build up first. Either way, if they move early I am willing to bet that Shuey is up to the task.




teamgene
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:41:12 AM
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Forgiven wrote:


2. if I were playing Germany and Soviets joined the war at that point against Japan, I'd probably pass on France and hold siegfried line with Italian assistance and try to push straight to moscow, and, well, I think it would succeed...
...


If you do not take France first, you give a safe harbor for Britain to build up and about the time your heavily engaged in Russia, could launch his own attack and as mobile as UK is, a breakout would be game ending.

UK would not need that much either, as France would be able to provide the infantry to fill the gaps.
Forgiven
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:56:48 AM
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Hmm, you could be right, and I'm not really against going on offensive, but I'd prefer to have at least US with us when we do, I'm quite happy to plan a 'defensive' war for a year or more..

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
teamgene
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 6:08:26 PM
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No matter what we do, we have to work together.

One other option is for USA to garrison islands and west coast. Make no attempt to check Japan and commit everything to Europe except submarines and carrier fleet to keep Japan honest. This would mean Anders would need to setup defensively only for Australia.

If we did this, then we might be ready in time to really have an impact on Germany at the beginning of Barbarosa. I have not test this option, but if we did it, I would lean heavily on building licenses for armor from UK/SU, focus on the doctrines.

I need to know which way to go with my tech, if Japan I go heavy on naval air/doctrines, if germany then army/air and will basically ignore naval doctrine/tech except for uboat.

So I would like to hear you all on what to do?
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 7:56:48 PM
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meh, i was going for a drastic approach myself, i am not sure i like to play with a SU with no IC, no modern army, no officers.
nevertheless i will do testbuilds the next days and check feasibility.

otherwise i might have to object. i am ready for all out war in mid 41, not mid 39.

i will do testruns these days and confront you with data. i'll give you probably some 3 builds.
please see what you can field yourself by, what, mid 39?

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
teamgene
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:40:49 PM
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For the Japan Scenario....figuring a mutual attack by USA and SU, did not try to raise our carrier strength.

By May 30, 1939

36x Inf (British licensed brigades).
4x Arm (actually 5 l. arm as it is too hard to get AI to agree to Licensing but IC comes out very close to same)
3x L. cruisers
1x H. cruiser
1x Intercepter
2x CAG
4x Airbase
3x Naval Base

with....
8x Eng brigades finishing in mid june.

This was done without really taxing production so that I was able to put IC to upgrade all units as well. Important since USA starts with lvl 1 inf.

More armor would be completing around dec of 39

I was able to keep leadership around 100% as well.

US subs were able to watch all of mainland Japan's ports as well as get a good view of Taiwan and parts of the China coast.

Traks
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 11:12:51 PM
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Quote:
Now I am not saying its what we have to do, but do remember that the players running Germany right now may be a little gun shy, so might not be willing to just jump in without a massive build up first. Either way, if they move early I am willing to bet that Shuey is up to the task


Shy, eh? Smile
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