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Hytzon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 6:02:23 PM
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Just a quick post.

I think we should consider how we build our divisions, I will start with including a statistic I found on Paradox' forums: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479609&page=5



I don't know how the stats are for IC and supply cost, but the ARM-ARM-MOT-SPART seems like a nice build. For infantry I would just use the good old 3xINF and then a few specialized divisions for port defense and so on.


You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 7:51:03 PM
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We need 2-3 Arm+Eng attacking units for taking forts and crossing rivers.
Hytzon - we also need to split, who is in charge of production, research, who works with which front.
I would prefer having production as I enjoy minmaxing it.
Hytzon
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:12:57 PM
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Traks wrote:
We need 2-3 Arm+Eng attacking units for taking forts and crossing rivers.
Hytzon - we also need to split, who is in charge of production, research, who works with which front.
I would prefer having production as I enjoy minmaxing it.

But if you look at the statistics, the engineer bonus does not really do much good. I mean 2.7 vs 3.6 for forts and 9.2 vs 8.0 for rivers. Then again the difference is so small that it probably won't make a difference.
I am fine with you in the driver seat and doing production, tech and so on.


You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Saturday, August 21, 2010 8:27:17 PM
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Hmm.
Yes, I see your point.
We can try running without Engies at all, at least in tank formations.

Great. Then you are in charge of Sea forces and split 50:50 airforce command.
This split worked well in last game with Kyril too.
Airforce - who needs take air units for their part of theater.

In 1940 we will have to give some tanks to Italy and maybe Japan for boosting their forces.
After France, of course.

Italy - after annexing Yugoslavia check your threat level carefully.
It is possible you can be DOWed after next war declaration, depends on other things.
Yugo is safe, after that all is risky. If you can afford DOW, taking out Turkey would be best, but Greece also sounds okay.
Fiendix
Posted: Sunday, August 22, 2010 11:44:17 PM
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russia will probably go around dowing like you did - thus usa war entry should be done in 1940 jan. Wonder if sheuy will try anything out of the box. Really a lot depends on how uk-france v germany goes and how their forces will be situated.
Traks
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:15:48 AM
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In my last test game possibility to attack with good chances to win was in August of 1939, and not a day before.
We should try to snatch at least Norway, and preferably Turkey.

Italy, Japan, and Hungary.
Please post short build list till end of 1939, if you run test games.
I will post German tomorrow most likely. It is easiest way to see where we can save and streamline production.
Kyril
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 4:38:01 PM
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Did another test run. August 1st, I had 125 Inf Brigades (38 tech, 40's upgrade on the way), 90 Garrison, 35 Arty, 6 Armour (former Cav), 2 LT, 22 Mot, 20 Mountain.
Also managed to finnish all BB's, but that must have been a bug. Didnt fund them, yet they completed at the date they were supposed to finnish.

Practically speaking, roughly 100 Brigs to help in France should it be necessery with reasonable coast defense.
Fiendix
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 5:26:45 PM
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id suggest you load up our old monday game and check what I had as uk in 1940. Youll see what uk can muster (i used all my mp).
Hytzon
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:01:03 PM
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As to your question in the general thread, I think it would be nice with at least 1 transport plane as Germany.
It can really come in handy when some offensive is stopped because units are lacking supplies, I actually used my TP plane mostly for this as USA in the last game.
When our infantry practicals are high, sometime in late 1939, we should be able toy squeeze in a paratrooper division for exotic operations.

You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:09:43 PM
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In 1939 after firing Czech event there will be around 15IC gain, which will be used for Tra and at start of 1940 Paratroops will be made.
Italy later should build some marines for that annoying Malta.

Kyril - in middle of 1939 we will have 1940 infantry techs, license from us.
In 1940 we will techrush 1942 Inf and Tank techs, so in middle/end of 1940 we will have them.

I am also wondering how much Inf should we put on Maginot line for defense. 3x in each province + 1 behind for support in attacked provinces?
Fiendix
Posted: Monday, August 23, 2010 7:39:18 PM
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I will have 1940 inf mid june.
I assume you will delay all events till just before war?
I can give 4 marine brigades to italy before war.

2 gar x 4 brigades each is most you need if you have a 2 v 1 province. Maybe 1-2 inf to rush defence just in case. plus a tank brigade here or there.

Traks
Posted: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 8:54:19 AM
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By August 1st country will be ready and fire Czech event.
In middle/end of August second Czech event and other events.
East has enough forces, and some 10-12 tanks divisions will be deployed in West to to take out Netherlands.
Belgium and France will have to wait a little bit.
Leadership at start of war will be 130-140%. I think that by time when we are ready to take on France, it will reach 160%.

Builds:
5 subs
2 CAG's (soon ready), then setting more INT's for build.
around 30 tank divisions.
Some 15 inf divisions
Some 15 S-P Art.
Constant 4 GAR building for West and later western wall.
Kyril
Posted: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 7:29:28 PM
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Would appreciate some Marines if you could spare them, assuming Malta is a VP objective for us. I might convert some starting Mil to special forces as well later this year.
ITA will finish the '40 Inf tech a bit later then GER (August/Sept IIRC), so will buy some Licenses if starting any new INF builds in that period.

Prior to war I am thinking of sending some signals to the French by placing troops and moving Navy as if I would attack them as well. either it helps by having the French put more units in that area that you wont have to fight up North, and/or when needed I can be called in at a moments notice.
Hytzon
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:27:27 PM
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Let's discuss the OOB a bit.

I think we should try to fill up each corps completely with 5 divisions as it saves leadership, and usually you can engage with 4 divisions in one province and keep 1 in reserve.
We should keep specialized divisions in their own corps with a special name, like all the mountaineers in a Gebirgskorps or all the tanks in a Panzerkorps. This makes it easier to assign leaders with matching traits like panzer leaders or commandos and easier to operate in combat. Additionally we can use all the 1-2 skilled old guards for garrison divisions/corps (I have done so already).

For now I have created a panzerkorps, but more will be created as we continue to increase our panzer numbers. The biggest question is do we want to mix the motorized divisions into our normal corps or keep them in a separate corps. I found it nice in the last game as Germany to have 4 INF divisions and 1 MOT division in each infantry corps to add some mobility, but since we min-max much more in this game, I am not even sure if we have spare motorized divisions?

OOB

Theater (xxxxxx)
Leader skill reduces the co-ordination penalty for a given number of units.
I am not sure how good the co-ordination reduction is, so I think we should look more to the traits of the general rather than skill. Even though the traits are only passed on with 1/16 effectiveness, we should place a logistics wizard here, but not a high skilled one - just a 3 star or something. If we could find one with both logistics and winter traits that would be nice.

Group (xxxxx)
Leader skill gives a reduction of supply consumption of all units within range by about 5% per skill.
We should try to fill these with skill 4 and 5 star generals, at least for the groups in Spain and on the Eastern Front, as supply is so important.

Army (xxxx)
Leader skill increases organizational level of all units within range.
Again skill 4 and maybe 5 in some cases as organization is always nice, while their traits are passed on with 1/4 effectiveness.

Corps (xxx)
Leader skill improves the odds of reserve units moving forward in a battle.
Here leaders can gain a skill level, but only after several years of fighting. But I think we should not go much above skill 3 generals here, as we will probably have a good attack reinforce change anyway if we use the right minister and research the relevant land doctrine (the latter is important!).

Divisions (xx)
Leader skill gives bonus to combat efficiency.
Hopefully our efficiency will generally be high, so no real need to assign high level generals here. Also low levels will gain skill quickly.



You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:47:36 PM
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I would agree on assessment of using Suply wizards in higher chains of hierarchy.
Winter specialist is good trait, but lower priority. Can be used for Infantry.

In August, when we mobilize, I will switch to Specialist training for making crack troops for Barbarossa.
Decision on how many troops should be thrown East will be taken after France, I suppose.
Slightly lower efficiency troops will be left on Secondary theaters.
To best tank divisions we should assign Rommel and other ideal tank generals. Rommel WAS making around +100% more efficient fighting force, killing anything that would be against.

I see no need for Motorized in France and Poland, but I can make some spare for SU.
Not too many, as their stats are not superb, but maybe 3 divisions?
If they are intended for speed and nothing else, no need to add even S-P Art. So what role you intend for them?
Hytzon
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:59:27 PM
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About the MOT divisions; I was thinking that it would be nice to have some speed for some of the infantry corps, at least those far from friendly panzer units. This helps with quick captures for sudden opportunities and can prove handy when trying to avoid getting encircled. But I agree, it is something needed only on the eastern front, so we can wait with the production of them.

I know Rommel as a skill 5 general will add nice efficiency at divisional level, but he also has a lot of traits that is nice to have for several divisions. A skill 3-4 panzer general will grant nearly the same combat efficiency, while being able to gain a skill level during the western campaign, which is not possible at corps level. Therefore I think Rommel and his equivalents should be a corps commanders at the start of the war for our best Panzerkorps', while we can use the nice level 3-4 panzer generals at the divisional level.

You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 1:05:51 PM
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Fine with me, I do not know why but I find fixing OOB boring.
Production and research are much more fun Smile
That's why I am grateful for you taking care of it.

For East - how many Mot would you want? Pure Mot or Mot+S-R Art?

P.S. I would also like to hear what ship techs we should develop. I think that in 1940 we will have a lot of IC so we may decide building naval force for invading UK in 1942, if Eastern front gets stuck. I think that classic light cruisers + some CV's is the answer.

Traks
Posted: Saturday, September 04, 2010 5:43:47 PM
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As nobody writes anything Smile
I tested few things more.

Nat. Spain join is "impossible". No point spending any points there.
My vote on Nat.Spain is puppeting, their AI should be able to cover Spain itself, freeing our forces.
On August 1st we have to set radar building. 5 is enough, then 5 more are set to build when first are finished near New Year.
By March 10 on Russian border will be ready.

Near war all deals with Japan will be canceled. We can continue trading through Italy, directly too many convoys are sunk.
So Japan - when you join war, no convoys will come from Europe until we get shared border Smile

Poland - around month, by October we will be able to take on France.
Winter will slow things down, but no choice there.
Fiendix
Posted: Saturday, September 04, 2010 9:09:05 PM
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Traks wrote:
As nobody writes anything Smile
I tested few things more.

Nat. Spain join is "impossible". No point spending any points there.
My vote on Nat.Spain is puppeting, their AI should be able to cover Spain itself, freeing our forces.
On August 1st we have to set radar building. 5 is enough, then 5 more are set to build when first are finished near New Year.
By March 10 on Russian border will be ready.

Near war all deals with Japan will be canceled. We can continue trading through Italy, directly too many convoys are sunk.
So Japan - when you join war, no convoys will come from Europe until we get shared border Smile

Poland - around month, by October we will be able to take on France.
Winter will slow things down, but no choice there.


Spain
Ai is a noob - esp if you kill some of their units before puppeting. You really need to gar it from both sides.

I hope you manage with france before march...
Traks
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 1:44:29 PM
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In case if I am not able to attend:
On August 1st, all builds will be ready.
Mobilize, fire event.
Get down 5% dissent to 1%. Fire both other events.
When at war, our dissent will fall to 0 fast anyway.
For builds - set 5 radar stations.
Switch law to 3 year draft and leave 7 technologies for research. Education + IC + which finish nearest (inf techs as I remember).
That will give us some much needed officer rate.
We will have to take on Poland with 150% rate, in France around 180%.
Middle/end of August declare war and switch to full mobilization law.
Attack Poland and Danes.
Then, Sweden and later Norway.
In west, take out only Belgium.
Hytzon
Posted: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:20:15 PM
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Sorry for not replying earlier...
Thx for the heads-up, I seriously hope you can be there!

As to the naval stuff, we should do the carrier techs but we might skip the visibility one. Since carriers are usually operated in big fleets, I don't think having a lower visibility helps much - especially since people deploy level 10 radars all over the map. Just keep it low priority and lets discuss it after the current session.

You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 8:11:50 AM
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Okay, took a look at save.
We lost 3 subs, not too bad. Had 11 on 1st of September.
169% officer rate and raising. Also got some vital technologies researched.

Some things will be built by end of November, some by December, as I am running Specialist training.
Radars will be ready in March.
Fiendix
Posted: Saturday, September 18, 2010 8:50:07 PM
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Dont think there is a point in getting cvs for germany - though it could help keep more uk cvs in that area allowing japan more freedom.
BTW is the uk fleet with cvs still blocking denmark? Cant the german BBs sink them or does he have a big force there? Really a lot of forces are blocked there? Is there a point in keeping so many troops in poland? Ussr prolly wont attack?
Traks
Posted: Sunday, September 19, 2010 8:59:38 PM
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It is an idea, but game will make it's corrections of course.
Overall, plan is to cover all Medium tank divisions with S-P Art, build few more planes and subs.
If there is free IC, CV's seem like good investment.
I will run short tests with build queue after this Monday and then I will be able to predict more properly.

Right now unknown part is how much France war will cost in manpower.
I will try to attack UK forces as much as possible, but unfortunately front is not wide enough for serious maneuvers.

I do think that we can leave almost no troops on border, defend Kiel/other places there and send free tank divisions to France or maybe Switzerland area to make one more breakthrough there.
Hytzon
Posted: Monday, September 20, 2010 11:28:42 AM
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Well I am not sure how many forces we actually have left in Poland, I think it is like 2 infantry corps i.e. ~ 10 divisions.
A push through Switzerland might be possible, but I would like to finish the Danish conquest first. Copenhagen has turned into a northern Gibraltar, but I will make it fall... The British keep fleets at Denmark and they are to strong for us to bomb with our relatively useless planes (lack of torpedo tech etc.), and if we sail out with the BB fleet we might lose it all as it can ping-pong to north of Denmark, meaning it would be trapped outside the safe harbors in the Baltic. Troublesome situation indeed...



You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
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