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Soviet Union - Balancing 101 Options · View
Fiendix
Posted: Friday, December 03, 2010 9:51:49 AM
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As Traks said - i prefer gar on islands or bottleneck places like singapore which i am bound to lose and loseing tanks there is just a waste. Plus their stats are not all that bad. The downside ofc is that they are on a different tech tree - so i just usually prefer to have more inf and use the "spare" ic to build other units. Still i understand why all build them - not that it doesnt irriate me that the tank zerg is still present in HOI3.... really should be less of them on all sides.
juv95hrn
Posted: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 12:44:33 AM
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Many MP games only allows tanks and mobile forces to be built at conscription law 2 or better. Maybe this is the way to go? I totally agree its highly annoying that PI still allows unlimited tank brigades (casuse that really is what it is) pre-war production.
Forgiven
Posted: Tuesday, December 07, 2010 6:16:38 AM
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I suggested heavy changes to conscription laws (so that you couldn't build anyfaster on the low coscript. law) but not sure what happened to that...

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
Hytzon
Posted: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:34:46 AM
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Paradox do listen, proof: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?509593-River-bug-SI-2.03c Smile

You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:24:17 PM
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BTW, while i cannot say much due to NDA, i can say this much i think: OOSes (the submarine one, it was not the CVs btw; and bombers) are fixed.

also more moddable combat stuff. officers cap at 140%.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Traks
Posted: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:36:44 PM
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Wee.
All good stuff.
140 cap probably because AI knows how to raise to 140% and they were too lazy to fix or change to nonlinear.
That also means Soviets are getting major boost.
I did manage to get 115-120% officer rate prewar, and with Germany having 140% I would stand a really good chance.
Fiendix
Posted: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:59:31 PM
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hmm a cap at 140... dont think thats a good idea... germany needs a bigger adv than 20% more org....

it was subs causeing oos? Seems hard to belive noteing the number we had when cv fleets came into battle...
teamgene
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:47:58 AM
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We had some CV battles though with subs present though, so it makes sense. Never put two and two together though as I thought it was CV's too.
Forgiven
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:43:17 AM
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cv's = bombers in those battles? (as in naval bombing?)

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
Hytzon
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2010 9:54:34 AM
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Artfox seems very active in the bug forum, perhaps one of you could post the Japanese supply bug? I mean there is a province in China hogging all Japanese supplies or how is it?

You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:24:55 AM
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No idea. i think we had land based bombers causing OOSes at times, though. But it was submarines in your battles causing OOSes, says Podcat as opposed to CVs as it was reported.

@officer cap: It is moddable now, but i think only generally not for a specific country. SO maybe 150 or 160.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
teamgene
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:01:29 PM
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Forgiven wrote:
cv's = bombers in those battles? (as in naval bombing?)


I don't recall getting the OOS when I was naval bombing the jap fleet or being naval bombed for that matter. Its always at the end of a fleet battle in which both fleets meet.

The submarines causing it makes sense as often they were in the same location as both sides use them to spot fleets etc...
Hytzon
Posted: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:57:25 PM
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This looks promising, although it is simple. But it will change some of the eastern front mechanics!

podcat wrote:

I put in a simplified version of this where you dont regain org while advancing into hostile territory, although you still do on your own turf.


Seen in http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?510061-Never-give-up-%29


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Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 5:48:16 PM
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btw... practicals will be capped at 50 Smile

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Ederon
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 6:29:31 PM
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Gen.Schuermann wrote:
btw... practicals will be capped at 50 Smile

Moddable?
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:23:15 PM
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Daniel wrote:
Moddable?


no idea. will ask Smile

EDIT: yes, moddable. That's it for mod support this time, though Sad
But we will get more eventually!

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Ederon
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 8:51:58 PM
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Gen.Schuermann wrote:
no idea. will ask Smile

Do not ask, demand! Big Grin
Forgiven
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:20:39 PM
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And I wonder if this '0 infra' province landing stuff could be fixed somehow too, real pain that...
(As in even with troops in province it won't convert to their control, but revert back to 'the one controlling surrounding provinces' every tick.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is a problem, if you are powerless.
teamgene
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:23:39 PM
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ok the one OOS I got did have a sub in the region
Traks
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2010 10:33:14 PM
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Probably should put up poll to open forums or open even without poll Smile
P.S. Interesting that Russia did run to 900 manpower (500 of which were by event).
So overall Soviet losses in manpower were much much bigger, as I in 1941 had around 800 without event.
Ederon
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 8:03:04 AM
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Traks wrote:
So overall Soviet losses in manpower were much much bigger, as I in 1941 had around 800 without event.

Remember that you surrendered almost instantly after loss of your army and put up no fight after it. Wheres we fought bloody battles till the end of the game - three sessions after Pripyat marshes disaster.
Hytzon
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:14:56 AM
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I don't know how to limit the USSR tank built, but we should be very careful to change things further than what they are now.

In this game Germany kept some 5-10 tank divisions in the West, some 3-5 tanks were in Africa and that left some 20-25 tank divisions on the eastern front.
They played a key role in breakthroughs, but the infantry filled the ranks and held the lines. Also note that I would not advise any German player to build more than 30-40 tank divisions, as they simply suck away your oil to fast. The issue is that UK/USSR do not suffer these massive oil shortages...

Also, we should keep an eye of what happens in the Tuesday game where USSR is doing an orderly withdrawal (from what I have heard).

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Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:31:45 PM
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Since in the new patch we will get a cap on armor practical, armor numbers will be quite a bit lower next time.

A thing about balancing... will we do a more extensive leadership and IC relocation for next game? With basically the same areas occupied in this game as in OTL 1942 at the axis' greatest extend, i am faced with some 200 effective IC which i find to be unbalancing.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Hytzon
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:38:44 PM
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Load up as Germany and see what we were able to build at the end of the game... Effectively no more new land troops due to excessive supply consumption and manpower shortages. As time goes by, Germany also needs to deploy even more troops in the west. We had just about the right amount of units to fend of invasions, but we did start to cannibalize the garrisons, effectively weakening fortress Europe while the allies increased their strength....

When I was Germany last time, I did build some GAR-MP-MP divisions and placed them along supply routes. This does help a bit with partisan supply stealing, but I think the suppression from MP brigades are simply to low to justify their build cost. We might want to double their suppression values to make them viable.

I do advocate we revert the Italian IC boost back to vanilla values to counter the late German Münich event chain, I mean the UK have less IC but so does Italy. This would be nice since Germany can do the event whenever it pleases, so no need for house rules, and Italy might even be a bit weaker on the eastern front.

You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
Traks
Posted: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 1:01:29 PM
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Yes, basically Germany was out of manpower AND fuel to build anything by middle of 1941.
We were mooching Italian fuel quite a lot too just to keep panzers rolling.
That was thanks to 2.03 patch which doubled fuel requirements of panzers.
We did very balanced build as it met all tasks.
Enough airpower, and just right amount of tanks and infantry.
So once again if we make changes, then minor ones.
Balance is pretty close, as this time fight with SU was balanced most of the time and even after marshes victory was not certain.

I vote against Italy having less IC, but if majority votes for it, I am okay with that.
I would put Munich event end date as 01.01.1939, because it is not about creativity, it is about delaying event as much as possible. While event provides some IC to Germany, it is much more beneficial to Allies. So Germany will always delay it as much as possible.

I do agree that at least 50% of European Soviet IC and manpower/leadership should be relocated to Urals/Siberia.
Historically they evacuated whatever possible, including all teens and children.

P.S. I am also fine with human controlled China, to see if it makes any difference in East.
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