Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

Session 8 - 21st February - 20:00 CET Options · View
Traks
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 11:06:04 AM
 Centurion
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/4/2009
Posts: 853
And that's why we are discussing on how to adjust mod to delay USA entry to later time, by mechanics and not homerules.
Then it will be decision of Japan if it decides to go to war, and I expect later Japan/USA entry into war, probably around 1941.
Fiendix
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 11:40:24 AM
 Pilus prior
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 1,017
Traks wrote:
And that's why we are discussing on how to adjust mod to delay USA entry to later time, by mechanics and not homerules.
Then it will be decision of Japan if it decides to go to war, and I expect later Japan/USA entry into war, probably around 1941.


it should also depend on progress in india - delicate matter. If india is bad shape then usa should be able to dow.
Ederon
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 2:38:39 PM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
Fiendix wrote:
it should also depend on progress in india - delicate matter. If india is bad shape then usa should be able to dow.

We might tie it down to loss of key Indian ports/cities.
Nikitn
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:15:50 PM
 Sergeant
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 1/11/2011
Posts: 61
Daniel wrote:
Nikitin, take a look at record of past three-four games. You'll notice US joined as early as 1940 and not due to Japanese attack, but rather due to high belligerence of USSR. This time it was not different. US was able to join yet before Japanese attack. What Japan did this time was they seized initiative rather then waiting for inevitable - US war entry and subsequent IC boost you are talking about. If Japan did not DoW itself, US would be in war within weeks (or month/two), so there goes your argument...


Not really. What exactly is the US supposed to do when it joins the war? Attack Japanese islands? LOL Nah, Japan has to be offensive to win.. And the more time it gets before invading, the more the power-balance swings to Japan's favour.

The initiative is on Japans side, it doesn't matter who declares war on whom Smile.
Traks
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:21:18 PM
 Centurion
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/4/2009
Posts: 853
For instance, USA can park fleet over Japanese fleet and then declare war.
Or park fleet in India, providing landings behind Japanese forces effectively annihilating them.

Or hundreds of other possibilities, don't underrate the effects of unexpected strike.
Nikitn
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 3:30:59 PM
 Sergeant
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 1/11/2011
Posts: 61
well, my point was that Japanese declaration of war wasn't a good decision.. the fact that the Japanese surprise attack succeeded was mostly due to luck (like catching US transport fleets while reinforcing islands)
Fiendix
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 4:03:31 PM
 Pilus prior
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 1,017
Nikitn wrote:

The initiative is on Japans side, it doesn't matter who declares war on whom Smile.


oh it matters much - usa with demobilised units and a low officer rate due to builds can have 8-10 org - mobilised they are x4 higher. Why do u think i couldnt get hawaii at the start when by the time i got there u had 8+ divs at full org?

It succeded because we surprised you - no luck in that. The tps were a natural thing and a nice bonus when you move troops around alone and are not ready for war and the enemy has subs and spies to see whats moveing around.

you need to play more mp before you come up with these theories of yours.
Ederon
Posted: Monday, February 28, 2011 4:43:19 PM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
I just wonder: are you reading our arguments Nikitin? Smile
Nikitn
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:07:34 PM
 Sergeant
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 1/11/2011
Posts: 61
i am skimming them..

Your arguments revolve around "surprise and initiative" which is quite stupid since Japan would always have the initiative. It was USA's fault that professional soldiers weren't protecting guam and other islands. The japanese attack in this game didn't succeed because of good timing or anything like that - no it succeeded because the US team was slow with positioning professional soldiers (soldiers who always have full org & strength).

Oh, and hawaii was filled with professional soldiers, you would never have taken it anyway, trust me Wink
Orthank
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 1:25:30 PM
 1st Lieutenant
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 1/22/2009
Posts: 184
Location: Wilanów
Nikitn wrote:
well, my point was that Japanese declaration of war wasn't a good decision.. the fact that the Japanese surprise attack succeeded was mostly due to luck (like catching US transport fleets while reinforcing islands)


Do U really belive it was luck?No no noBig Grin .
Ederon
Posted: Tuesday, March 01, 2011 3:37:33 PM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
Nikitin, you are using arguments which revolve around the fact, that Japan brought US into the war too early allowing it to get full IC instead of peacetime fraction.

Me and others just put your argument into right place by pointing out that USA was able to join war and get full IC anyday regardless of Japanese attack. And it'd happen really soon. I kinda know it, because I was there Holy

So there is your argument muted. When I mentioned initiative, I just put another argument into the pack. Japan did use its initiative to intercept US troops, capture forward bases and threaten Hawaii. If it didn't, US would garrison those islands properly and it'll be much more difficult to get them.

I'm not talking about what-ifs you keep bringing in. I'm not saying anything stupid (to begin with). Japan did succeed. Period. Not necessary to talk about why it happened. It was matter of planning, operative reaction and to certain amount also luck (there is always portion of luck involved, but you know - luck favors brave).

So you should now slow down, get back to Allied subforum and plan how to swing balance into your favor. It's moot to keep talking about how stupid Japanese were to attack if facts talk different story. And should Japan/Axis win this game (I hope not), you might feel bit embarrassed by being so confident about your wrong assumptions.
Nikitn
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 1:38:35 PM
 Sergeant
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 1/11/2011
Posts: 61
No need to get mad on me Holy

And my point was, that the decision wasn't good, though it was successful. Why? Because of luck. Ideally, the first thing the US should've done would be to position professional troops on the important islands. So Japanese success can be attributed to US failure.

So there goes your point.. Japan would always have the initiative. All the US could've done was to start sending soldiers to Europe after declaring allegiance to the Allies. Sending the US fleet on the attack during the early war would be quite suicidal, as the Japanese fleet was better AND much bigger.

I've said my point as clearly as possible now, so cya!
Ederon
Posted: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 9:25:14 PM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
Nikitn wrote:
No need to get mad on me Holy

I'm not mad, I just don't like when anyone puts others' arguments aside by deeming them "stupid"...and I wanted to break the cycle we seem to be stuck in Wink
juv95hrn
Posted: Sunday, March 06, 2011 7:15:35 PM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal2012 Good Cause Support Medal

Joined: 9/15/2010
Posts: 552
Location: Sweden
I'll refrain from commenting on this argument. All I can say is wow!!!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.