Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

Session 23 - December 5th Options · View
Ederon
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2012 8:14:09 PM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
Real shame it is.

We should start planning on new game. Would be nice to start next week, but I'm not such an optimist. We can try though.

Let's sketch the new game in new topic im group's main forum and also on PI.
Traks
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2012 8:17:14 PM
 Centurion
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/4/2009
Posts: 853
99% I can't next week, as I said I am moving.
If my boss lets me go this week, that is.
I'd prefer week later.

And I vote for forums to be opened.
Not that anybody (except me) wrote much.



And thy be heard! Punk

File Attachment(s):
mp_Germany1942_05_21_06.zip (1,079kb) downloaded 17 time(s).


Fiendix
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2012 8:52:31 PM
 Pilus prior
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 1,017
uhm i did post quite a bit when i played - pity cant play anymore. I loved my japan.
Can you guys post the save id love to see what usa had in terms of fleet and other shit Smile.
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:00:56 AM
 Generalfeldmarschall

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalAuthor of 9000th Post

Joined: 3/5/2007
Posts: 3,505
Location: guarding Democracy
18 carriers, holy moly! But no CLs to back them up with? When did we kill all of those?

We had 15 CVs on US side and 10 CVs on UK side. I had 6 scheduled to finish in December/January. As we engaged your TP flotilla (i am VERY happy you spent 80% of your construction IC on new TPs Big Grin ) we actually wanted to draw your CV fleets to fight us in the Indian Ocean to relieve some pressure. I was hoping that with my entire task force combined I'd be able to defeat you somewhere with 2:1 losses in my favor.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Traks
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 11:26:13 AM
 Centurion
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/4/2009
Posts: 853
+2CVs on Germany, and 3 more getting ready.

As Europe was low on manpower, Germany switched to supply production for whole Axis while Japan could concentrate on troops and some ships.
I was researching rockets, and in 3 months time V1 would be online, targeting Norwegian supply port.

Sweden, not sure. I think I'd use airforce mostly for bombing campaigns and that's it.
Have to take a look at Allied manpower situation. And Soviet.
USA should have 0 probably, as I killed thousands of their troops in Norway.

Resource situation was stable, and Allied sub activity was low.
We were raiding USA coast btw... from Azores. Too much ocean to cover with destroyers, but enough to cover with subs Smile
Fiendix
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 11:32:19 AM
 Pilus prior
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 4/25/2008
Posts: 1,017
yea i wonder how he lost the tps. They were supposed to pick up german tanks in spain - switch them with jap units and ship them off to middle east. Also wonder why such a wierd construction of cv carrier forces. One doesnt mix levels of cvs if he doesnt have too - not to mention never mix a lvl I with anything. At least middle east looks very good. Dont know why the fleet is in the med? A bit risky. Russian front in east look bleak but nothing worthwhile there - more pshychological warfare - prolly got overwhelmed by the paras that i knew where there and he didnt?
Pity russian front stalled but maybe with the v1 this would move along.
I was building DDs only - no point for cls. Wonder why he scrapped most of the production he could have just dumped it lower as more cvs iirc were comming out? Or maybe they did. Still 20 cvs in total was not too bad. Couldnt keep up more with usa due to their IC level. At least panama was still mine Big Grin.
Ederon
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 2:14:55 PM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
I have yet to check Germany. SU ended up with some 300-400 free MP and lot of stuff soon to be deplyable in the queue. Still, our forces were inferior due to tech gap and most importantly officer ratio. This is something we were struggling with all the time.

To sum it up, here is what I take from this game:

  • Japanese inexhaustible MP after Chinese fall is biggest remining balancing issue, which has to be addressed.
  • Soviet pre-(major)war expansionism without proper consequences (dissent, maybe even leadership hit etc.) is also disbalancing to some extent.
  • Armor should not be able to land behind enemy lines without having regular port to supply them. In this case 20 day supplies carried with the division is not good mechanic.
  • Soviets are still too low on leadership. We grabbed every single country we could to improve this, still we were only able to defend behind rivers with superior numbers to halt Axis. In 1942, we should be better in terms of offensive capabilities. Not the biggest issue though, grows bigger when pre-war expansionism of SU is capped.
  • officer costs for armor is alomst tuned up well, still we might want to do something about air. Air should be low quality if produced enmasse as it's probably the most technically demanding training among all others (tanks or other equipment). Having lot of hardware is one thing, but enough poperly trained personnel to operate it is another. There should be some relation between available MP, leadership level, doctrines and efficiency of air missions overall. Because not everyone is suitable for this task (just fraction of whole MP), quality is important (represented by leadership), training is very important (doctrines). However, to model this I have no answer in scope of current FTM mechanics. And it's least important of all above anyway.
  • Traks
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:18:42 PM
     Centurion
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/4/2009
    Posts: 853
    1. Agreed. There was event in Diday and maybe some other mod, which could let Japan keep China but it was costly. Partisan level like 10% or even more.
    2. Agreed. Put dissent, and maybe more neutrality to USA, delaying their joining Allied team?
    3. There is no good event/mechanic solution, only houserule will work there. Unfortunately. But! something must be done to landings overall, similar to what I discussed in Paradox forum.
    Like armor can land only in ports, and retreating of units is possible only from port province.
    4. No. We simply have raised officer requirements high and doubled? losses of officers due to combat. With old requirements, Soviets would have hit cap already. Even Germany did not have cap which is 165%, we had 160% for long time and now 164%. And Germany has huge leadership pool.
    5. Latest officer rules we had, things were pretty balanced. So I'd say no need to change officer costs anymore.

    Only 300? Now that is pretty much burned out Smile I will take a look how much MP you had at start of war, probably around 1000?
    But yes, our plan to win relied on V1 and V2 coming into production in autumn of 1942 and crippling your whole infra, additionally killing your national unity (strategic bombing effects).

    P.S. Fiendix, what year was it when you stopped playing? End of 1941? Want to check changes in build queue when Default took over, too.
    Ederon
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:38:36 PM
     Field Major


    Joined: 2/28/2007
    Posts: 5,949
    Location: Heart of Europe
    4. SU should be somewhere around what we ended up with. Notice, we were able to reach ~100% officers after full 2 years of spending 80-90% of leadership to officers. Which in turn means greatly neglected research. So I do think SU leadership should be increased. Not substantially. With applied increased officer costs and decreased leadership to officer ratio, SU is hit the most among all countries. Summed up, SU leadership should be somewhere in between current starting level and what SU is able to get by getting mad and annexing everything in sight (which means Scandi, Persia, Afghanistan). In turn, less aggressive SU means slower neutrality decline in the US. Which balances thing a little too.

    Well, we had lot of MP in production queue. Our MP losses were somewhere around losses we inflicted to Axis. Sure, not counting units lost in encirclements and/or defence to last man (Denmark, Bornholm, etc.). But you better load up the save to see the reality. My actual memory might be misleading to some extent.
    Ederon
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 3:41:27 PM
     Field Major


    Joined: 2/28/2007
    Posts: 5,949
    Location: Heart of Europe
    Anyway, forums opened Smile
    Traks
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:04:39 PM
     Centurion
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/4/2009
    Posts: 853
    Couple more things which annoyed me greatly:
    1. Sometimes subs were not damaged, but would return to port to be bombed to death. We lost at least 5 subs this way, arghhhhhh.
    2. Allies using Soviet airfields freely. This should be forbidden/blocked, and makes no sense.
    3. Same with fleets in Allied/Soviet ports or attacking from their territory.
    Ederon
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:21:24 PM
     Field Major


    Joined: 2/28/2007
    Posts: 5,949
    Location: Heart of Europe
    Traks wrote:
    Couple more things which annoyed me greatly:
    1. Sometimes subs were not damaged, but would return to port to be bombed to death. We lost at least 5 subs this way, arghhhhhh.

    I think this is okish, despite annoying. Ships are easy to bomb in undefended ports.
    Quote:
    2. Allies using Soviet airfields freely. This should be forbidden/blocked, and makes no sense.
    3. Same with fleets in Allied/Soviet ports or attacking from their territory.

    Hmm, where did Allies use Soviet airfields/ports? Scandinavia? I don't know about other uses of Soviet bases by Allies. And Scandi ones are okay as Allies feed them.

    Intersting reading. Your decision to delay attack on SU was key for the course of the game, as time was our only firend. Should you start Barbarossa 6+ months earlier, we'd be in trouble. Pity we didn't reach the point of V1/V2 use. Why did sealion crumble anyway?
    Traks
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 5:35:01 PM
     Centurion
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/4/2009
    Posts: 853
    1. Yes, but it makes no sense for 100% healthy sub to return to be sunk. So that means somebody has to monitor all sub movements and cancel suicidal movements, tripling micromanagement.
    2. Because Allied airforce freely rebased to Soviet airfields and sank all German ships. Interceptors did not deal enough damage even with running 24x7 cover. That was annoying too, really. No ships, no Sealion. Before Barbarossa we seriously considered this.
    3. Allies used it a lot in Scandinavia, yes. But sometimes also in East, I think Odessa and around that.

    Barbarossa was not possible, as I said we had like 30 divisions on border at that time. On January 1st there were 10-15 more tank divisions finishing.
    My decision of building CVs did delay Barbarossa, and we had cut practicals even more, so building was slower.


    I took a look at the saves. I'd say that it is Axis victory, as I said V1 and V2 coming online shortly, and we were only ones researching nukes. Which in 1942 would finish research and in 1943 reactor would be online.
    SU - 60 manpower/month, 400 spare, some tanks in building queue and 115% officer rate. Pretty solid position. Negative national unity/month, would be killed by V-s.
    UK - 21 manpower/month, -16 manpower at the moment. 0 convoys, so problems with supplies in other theaters. Fully dependent on SU and USA for imports. Combat medicine and First Aid tech not researched to 1942 level. Few CAGs, 1 Armor division, couple of fighters building. 143% officer level. 195IC.
    USA - 44 mp/month, 33 negative at the moment. High infantry techs, high light armor techs, very low medium armor techs. Building only air and CVs. Lots of militia probably because of Japanese landing. Evacuation from Norway just a matter of time. Combat medicine and First Aid tech not researched to 1942 level.

    Germany - 60 manpower/month, -25 currently. Mostly building planes and some ship, couple of subs.
    Italy - 28 mp/month, 105 spare, 224IC. Upgrades, escort ships and some CAS. 143% officer rate, all research awfully lagging. 6 battleships alive.
    Japan - 80mp/month, 1280 spare Smile 297IC, building nothing but transports. And I mean almost nothing, only couple more escorts. Slightly lagging in techs.

    New Japan player cancelled almost built infantry and almost built destroyers. Not delayed, but cancelled.


    Fiendix
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:51:04 PM
     Pilus prior
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 4/25/2008
    Posts: 1,017
    I actually dont remember when i stopped - think it was start of the year.

    Its funny that i wanted to do exactly the opposite (ie stay out of the war). Russian agression and early usa entry is just too cheesy in this sense. Never really planned to take hawaii once i saw the stack there Crazy Big Grin - just skip to panama - im sure usa was surprised though it was a major risk as I was moveing a huge fleet out of oil from a lvl 3? port Big Grin.

    Anyways i was pretty happy with things as they went. Though the early war was mainly due to russian agression I think it turned out best. Really lucky with that usa tp fleet a the start. None the less I think things even with the big jap manpower are pretty much balanced. European axis couldnt do much and without japan we would have prolly lost already. USA can churn a lot of cvs and seeing their production - easily x2 as many. Even with all the troops I was quite stretched thin. Not to mention not many planes on my side of the pond --> usa really did hurt me.

    venezuala was a gift from the heavens - dont know how axis can do without it really...

    Once Orthank stopped it really became a terrible experience. Running around 4-6 theatres with everybody hurrying you up is just not fun. Made a tonne of mistakes at that point - esp when u want to watch the fleet as it can be gone in 10 secs.
    I spent a lot of time analyzeing the spy screen (http://forums.ederon.net/default.aspx?g=posts&t=2202) which helped a lot in the naval aspect, and a huge ammount of time in getting the most out of our IC for a good fleet and army.

    Fiendix
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 7:53:00 PM
     Pilus prior
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 4/25/2008
    Posts: 1,017
    Traks wrote:


    New Japan player cancelled almost built infantry and almost built destroyers. Not delayed, but cancelled.




    ugh... and cvs, planes and other shit.. I think I had 20 more divisions comming out IIRC.
    Traks
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 9:47:53 PM
     Centurion
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/4/2009
    Posts: 853
    Well Orthank was busy with RL things, and I perfectly understand you. Being alone as Germany was equally taxing.

    After reading Allied forums I understand dilemma of Soviets. They had enough manpower, but after every battle their officer ratio decreased so they could not afford many battles too. And their techs were becoming more and more obsolete, while Germany ran 50 tech research at once.
    Gen.Schuermann
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:14:17 PM
     Generalfeldmarschall

    Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalAuthor of 9000th Post

    Joined: 3/5/2007
    Posts: 3,505
    Location: guarding Democracy
    I made a balancing thread, please contribute:
    http://forums.ederon.net/default.aspx?g=posts&m=88093#88093

    In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
    Fiendix
    Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 10:25:58 PM
     Pilus prior
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 4/25/2008
    Posts: 1,017
    and you wrote traks i was behind techs - seeing uk and ussr Big Grin.. i had more LD than they did. Evern was better with naval air techs than usa.
    Fiendix
    Posted: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:06:35 AM
     Pilus prior
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 4/25/2008
    Posts: 1,017
    Traks wrote:
    Well Orthank was busy with RL things, and I perfectly understand you. Being alone as Germany was equally taxing.


    i dont really know how Paradox intended to play this game its a nightmare. Japan needs min 2 player, Germany too, USA once at late war also, UK and USSR of course - though if UK fucks up a bit then the 2nd player can move to usa as not to much to do with UK One Tooth Grin Big Grin. Just scrolling from spain to azores to panama, to japan to eastern russia to middle east and back gave me a headache - and shortcuts dont seem to help much.

    anyways i may be back to playing the game sometime in march but only as minor coop - preferably with fleet control only Smile.
    Hytzon
    Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:31:31 PM
     Brigadier General

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 3/8/2007
    Posts: 1,199
    Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
    Good game overall, I agree it looks like a probable Axis victory. The endless Japanese and Italian attacks in the middle east really drained my manpower, I even launched some small scale invasion of the East Indies late in the game just to do something useful.

    As UK I lost some armor in the middle east against the Japanese, and that really hurt my overall offensive capabilities. On the positive side, I never lost a CV or even a modern BB. This turned out crucial as Japan was slapping USA around on the oceans during the early war... The German and Italian navies were kept in check, but tech wise I knew I was behind Japan fearing every major engagement against them... Though I did sink a Jap CVL at some point hehe.

    One of the biggest problems with the game was the labor insensitive air force management, jesus... Our summer game did prove that the situation is better in FTM as the unlimited rebase is not an issue, but still we might end up with 50-100 planes per country in '42-43... :S

    You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
    Traks
    Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:39:01 PM
     Centurion
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/4/2009
    Posts: 853
    Haha, that is interesting.
    Japanese were pushing for decisive battles there, while Italy was very reluctant to help. But came along.
    Suez was last big bastion of UK, it would hold until V1-2s probably.

    No idea where Japan would go, probably north to Stalingrad?

    It was interesting to read that Allied morale was also low... probably that's why we stopped game.
    Axis were not better in morale, it was like WW1, where both sides were waiting who breaks first.
    It was a nightmare to fight off landings in West... and airplanes killing unit in week.

    P.S. and 30 more Japanese divisions in Europe would have solved problem too.
    Fiendix
    Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 2:58:15 PM
     Pilus prior
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 4/25/2008
    Posts: 1,017
    yea when we ended a couple of months ago i was planning to dump more infantry into Spain and take the german tanks to beef up Middle East and try to head up north. Generally since russia and germany were at a standstill i was pretty frustrated that we couldnt get our act together. Esp when Italy dropped and coordination became harder. Waiting for V2 to bomb uk and russia was just a bit lame for me Tongue although I did start to research nukes Big Grin. I knew that USA was getting the upperhand in cvs though I still had better cags which helped me a lot early on, but generally that last dump of tps with units was gonna be my last risky visit in europe.

    I was thinking of going into the med to hunt for the uk fleet but with so many allies planes I cant see why default risked it.

    The other plan, if we were to play one more final session in June, was takeing the inf and tanks with my 20-24 tps and landing in usa as from what I saw the ally fleet was off uk. Think subs and spy screen and dd lvl 1-3 never have paid off as much before in my previous game as in this one.

    BTW Hytzon at the end of last game i was being overrun in saudia arabia by a big tank force. What happened when Default took over. I was a bit worried about that?
    Ederon
    Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:15:09 PM
     Field Major


    Joined: 2/28/2007
    Posts: 5,949
    Location: Heart of Europe
    Traks wrote:
    It was interesting to read that Allied morale was also low... probably that's why we stopped game.

    No Traks, we stopped bacuse there were no Axis players to assist you in an attempt to clain victory. Wink

    It was very good game IMO. Its biggest downside would be its shameful end.
    Hytzon
    Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 5:59:56 PM
     Brigadier General

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 3/8/2007
    Posts: 1,199
    Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
    Fiendix wrote:
    BTW Hytzon at the end of last game i was being overrun in saudia arabia by a big tank force. What happened when Default took over. I was a bit worried about that?

    Italy started pushing from the north and I lost air superiority, so I started to retreat. Unfortunately I fucked up and lost some of the armor... Retreats can be a bitch when enemy paras do funny stuff... Doh.

    My invasion or rather raid in the Pacific at the end of the last session, was a desperate attempt to get the Japanese navy out and play. Schuer and I talked about launching invasions from Hawaii and trying to destroy the Jap navy by overwhelming force, but I suppose it could just as well have tipped the other way. In any case, the last few sessions were not played too well from my side, I simply lost the interest to play with a proper strategy...

    You can't say civilization don't advance - for in every war, they kill you in a new way.
    Traks
    Posted: Thursday, January 12, 2012 6:23:27 PM
     Centurion
    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/4/2009
    Posts: 853
    I was really edgy after your countless landings in France and Spain.
    Forced me to jump around like madman.
    And bombing my 4 AA division to death in 3 days was wtf and big annoyance.

    Norway was where I made stand, as lost Norway = direct threat to German mainland.
    Users browsing this topic
    Guest


    Forum Jump
    You cannot post new topics in this forum.
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
    You cannot create polls in this forum.
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

    Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
    Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
    Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.