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King of Men
Posted: Monday, May 28, 2012 5:08:19 PM
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Nothing, that is, except Death to Germany!

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
fasquardon
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:48:22 AM
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So, Germany is already by far the most powerful country in the world, and now it wants to expand. This, combined with the traditional dominance of the big European power in the previous GG's HoI stage, inclines me to believe that Germany must be body-checked with prejudice. For Kongo, whose power looks to be up for a sharp reduction on conversion, logic dictates that the body-checking occurs in V2.

So the aim is the aim is the reduction of German power to a reasonable level with maximal pragmatism and iron commitment. This isn't about about suicide for ideals, or fighting a grudge match, it is about making sure that we in this coalition do better than Germany. If opportunity permits, that may mean a war next session, or it may mean a war at some point in AoD.

As I write, we have an uphill struggle. Fivoin has a very strong position militarily, diplomatically and geographically. Oddman admits to selling his soul to Fivoin, and Irsh thinks facing off against Fivoin in V2 is impossible. I propose to make the impossible possible. With KoM committed to this plan, the next stage is to get Yoshi on board, the stage after that, convincing Irsh that Germany can and will go down.

Then we need to work on Oddman, Falador and Dano. These three need to at the least be convinced to not support Fivoin - diplomatic isolation needs to be achieved as far as possible. Of course, it would be nice if we could also get their active help.

Dano is one area where our friends in Mongolia might help. I am not sure if Dano is kidding or not when he speaks about death threats from Kongo in the Paradox thread, but it may be his paranoia about me is picking up again. Some reassurance from people don't press his "Malaya is going to die under a Georgian boot!" buttons may help.

You may notice I have left out Russia. While the situation may change, my conversations lead me to believe that currently, the road to Frankfurt runs through Moscow.

So what do others think?

fasquardon

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King of Men
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 4:44:02 AM
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Well, at the moment there's just you, Blayne, and me in here. I can add others if you think we can more effectively work them over persuade them in a forum.

Touching war aims, I have my eye on the German colony in Indochina, and on Russia's trans-Ural (which used to be my cis-Ural) territories.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
fasquardon
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:40:32 AM
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I am not sure what my own goals would be, at the moment I am more focused on the larger goal of reducing the superpower by any means necessary. Kongolese Belgium would of course make for great cosmic justice.

I would like the British isles removed from German possession, since having an unsinkable aircraft carrier right next to France would weaken his military position quite significantly in AoD. Perhaps Falador or Dano would be interested in part or all of that area?

fasquardon



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The Professor
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 3:09:56 PM
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I fully support getting back Yunnan and possibly the remainder of German Burma if our goal is to credibly weaken them.

I think we can fully discount Oddman as ever likely to change sides and I'm even skeptical of him being neutral unless certain defeat is obvious to him. Dano might be convinced to attack Oddman if he thinks we're in this to win which would serve to keep oddman in check.

I don't trust Yoshi, he sells information for his own gain, also I don't think he'll join any coalition if Russia is on our side.

I believe Russia is our only realistic shot at fighting Bavaria.

Also mechanics, we can plummet his prestige to zero and deny him trade by blockading him, if we fight Oddman at the same time than it opens up a huge front to potentially invade from in Spain that isn't heavily guarded.

There is frankly plenty of ways to skin a cat, fighting Bavaria, Catalunia and Croatia combined isn't an issue, albeit much easier if Croatia is on our side.

Assuming Croatia is hostile: Pour troops into Anatolia and Ukraine and in Italy and Spain and start pushing in from all directions, the more fronts the harder it is for them to fight.

If Croatia is neutral in some ways its harder as the front becomes narrower in Poland, but slightly easier as we can focus more forces to periphery invasions.

If Croatia is allied well then Bavaria has to deal with forces pouring into Croatia during peace time.

1) Do we have naval superiority? Can't invade without it.
2) Is Japan in with us? Does this secure us Naval superiority?
3) Do we have enough transports to plot like 300 brigades+ at a time?

I support the removal of Britain as its coal is probably very important in AoD.
-Colonies.
-France???

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
King of Men
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:05:50 PM
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Quote:
I don't trust Yoshi, he sells information for his own gain, also I don't think he'll join any coalition if Russia is on our side.


I think you underestimate how annoyed OY was at Juan breaking their NAP. I'm reasonably confident he'll join if there's a credible chance of victory. On the other hand, Juan seems to be pretty firmly in Fivoin's camp; I doubt we can turn him.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:09:31 PM
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Juan will join whichever side gives the better offer, but in my experience he never accepts offering someone else's territory as an "offer".

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
King of Men
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:42:21 PM
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So I PMed OY and his hatred for Russia burns strongly. It does occur to me that his hatred for Germany might not flame as hot, but I've added him here anyway on the theory that we can find common ground.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
OrangeYoshi
Posted: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:59:17 PM
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Germany attacked me. Burn him if you want.

Russia broke a NAP. His nation will burn.
The Professor
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:22:58 AM
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Do we have naval superiority? It strikes me that while we can easily fortify Croatia handling both Russia and Germany will have their logistical difficulties, ie Mongolia instead of invading Bavaria directly will now need to advance across the Urals and through the Steppes.

So it seems to be our strategy is this:

Kongo reinforces Croatia.
Ethiopia and Mongolia invade Russia via the Caucasus and Siberia.
Knock Out Russia from the War.
??????
Defeat Bavaria.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
King of Men
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:44:53 AM
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Don't forget that Punjab is allied to Kongo, and likely doesn't mind fighting Russia. I assume Fasquardon is assiduously propagandising in this direction.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 1:53:39 AM
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Which I'm certain won't be a repeat of Italy invading Greece in 1940.

...


Riiiiiight?

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
The Professor
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 5:14:26 AM
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Dano claims neutrality, and "isnt saying anything" about the possibility of stabbing Oddman in the back should Oddman do anything silly like jump in to bail out Bavaria. Odds are Oddman is neutral.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
fasquardon
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:05:17 PM
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The Professor wrote:
Dano claims neutrality, and "isnt saying anything" about the possibility of stabbing Oddman in the back should Oddman do anything silly like jump in to bail out Bavaria. Odds are Oddman is neutral.


And is he seriously paranoid about me?

Re: Russia, I am very OK with Russia going down, but the satisfaction I would feel is an emotional indulgence. For me Germany must go down by hook or by crook. So if Russia going down helps take Germany down, I am all in. If it impedes taking Germany down, I'm gonna be less sanguine.

fasquardon

Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

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The Professor
Posted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:06:09 PM
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If they're allied there's no choice, by definition russia needs to go down to Bavaria to go down.

Dano is paranoid about everyone, he keeps his cards close to his chest. He obviously has no aims to partition Kongo, I think he may like the idea of partitioning Oddman if Oddman is stupid enough to empty his country.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Mark0628
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 12:09:49 AM
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here is the meat of my next AAR im sure it will be useful in the logistical sense.

Country - Current Standing Army – Max Standing Army – Possible Mobilized Brigades

Germany – 1016 - 1633 – 2113
Croatia – 771 - 773 – 637
Punjab – 187 – 253 – 327
Ethiopia – 982 – 1460 - 1408
Congo – 1674 – 2133 - 2297
Mongolia – 957 – 1361 - 1248
Japan – 640 – 1140 - 1348
Catalonia – 842 – 1609 - 1912
California – 831 – 1019 - 1874
King of Men
Posted: Thursday, May 31, 2012 7:37:05 PM
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On a different subject: Blayne, you and I should think of a better way to divide responsibility for fronts than the rather ad-hoc structure we used in the recent dustup. Each theatre should have one of us responsible for it, with clear lines of division; in the previous war, I said "I'll take Punjab, you take India", and then there was some confusion about whether the troops in Bengal were fighting India or Punjab, so both of us gave orders there. It worked out in the end, but fighting Germany is Serious Business. So I propose that we should look at what theatres we'll be fighting in - presumably there is at a minimum Russia and IndoChina, and possibly Croatia and Caucasus; then we should assign armies to each of those theatres and to a strategic reserve, to be dipped into only after consultation.

I notice some of our stacks are very reduced; please try to cycle armies out of battles when they've taken around 30% casualties, ie when a ten-regiment stack is down to about 20k.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
OrangeYoshi
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 3:42:33 AM
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More planning here, ya'll.

How exactly is this going to go down?
King of Men
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 5:03:08 AM
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Irsh has joined our discussion.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Irsh Faq
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 5:13:52 AM
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So I have the Caucasus front against Russia definitely, and possible Punjabi fronts against Russia or Croatian fronts against Russia and Germany. If Orago arrives, I'll probably place him in charge of expeditionary forces to Croatia and run Russia-Punjab myself.

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fasquardon
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 5:38:01 AM
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I think the main things at this point are:

1) Get troops into place in Punjab but especially croatia.
2) Get all our fleets together for coordinated operations.
3) Decide what we want

With regards to that last point, it is sounding like we are aiming for the annihilation of Russia off the map, is that so?

fasquardon

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King of Men
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 6:08:25 AM
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Personally I don't feel a need to eliminate Russia as a player or even a reasonably significant power. (I understand that OY may have a different view.) It does seem clear that we want back what Croatia lost plus a bit extra for the treaty breach; I want the Siberian border to move west; Punjab wants (I assume, Mark will correct me if I'm wrong) some of the bits of Persia that went to Russia in the partition; and Ethiopia probably the same. By the time you add up all that, you have a pretty significantly harsh treaty.

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Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Mark0628
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 7:34:59 AM
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i want guryev region, Tabriz and azerbaijan at the very minimum if we are not partitioning russia. i personally feel that we should significantly weaken him though if not annex as he also broke a treaty with me over the partition of persia that i am pretty ticked off about. German wargoals i dount even know what to think at this point.
fasquardon
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 12:38:26 PM
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King of Men wrote:
Personally I don't feel a need to eliminate Russia as a player or even a reasonably significant power. (I understand that OY may have a different view.) It does seem clear that we want back what Croatia lost plus a bit extra for the treaty breach; I want the Siberian border to move west; Punjab wants (I assume, Mark will correct me if I'm wrong) some of the bits of Persia that went to Russia in the partition; and Ethiopia probably the same. By the time you add up all that, you have a pretty significantly harsh treaty.


OK. I was getting the annexation from the way people were talking about turning Russia into a giant highway for delivering their armies to Russia's door.

fasquardon

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The Professor
Posted: Friday, June 01, 2012 7:37:12 PM
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I think you mean to Germany's door.

I am also not really in support of wipin Russia off the map nor of 'significantly' weakening them, simply reversing their gains and a couple of punitive states will suffice we don't want to distort the balance of power unnessasarily so, in fact it may be in our interests to be lenient if it may convince Russia to vacate the war and allow us to focus on Germany.

It is, I believe not even in our capability to be that harsh as it may involve needing to occupy the entire country, which is not really ideal for us strategically or logistially. Our demands should be the minimum threshold that Yoshi is willing to accept for the broader and more important goal of taking down Germany.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
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