Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

Discussion thread for FSR Options · View
King of Men
Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2012 6:32:14 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,216
Location: Nowhere
I also started a new thread on Pdox.


Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Friday, August 03, 2012 4:58:51 PM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,216
Location: Nowhere
It appears to me that we are somewhat behind schedule for a first session tomorrow. Very little kustom has been delivered, the map still needs a few minor tweaks, I don't believe everyone has got the right checksum running, and, per oddman's thread, our MP setup is still a bit up in the air. I propose that tomorrow should be, at most, a testing session.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Friday, August 03, 2012 5:17:25 PM
 General of the Army

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/17/2007
Posts: 8,344
Location: Time
Agreed.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Irsh Faq
Posted: Friday, August 03, 2012 5:26:56 PM
 Primus pilus
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 8/29/2009
Posts: 1,640
Location: Ipswich, Massachusetts
Test session works for me.

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
oddman
Posted: Friday, August 03, 2012 5:37:21 PM
 Admiral

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 3/16/2007
Posts: 2,824
Location: Netherlands
Acknowledged.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
-Bertrand Russell
danomite
Posted: Friday, August 03, 2012 6:10:38 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
King of Men wrote:
It appears to me that we are somewhat behind schedule for a first session tomorrow. Very little kustom has been delivered, the map still needs a few minor tweaks, I don't believe everyone has got the right checksum running, and, per oddman's thread, our MP setup is still a bit up in the air. I propose that tomorrow should be, at most, a testing session.
Also in the test with Blayne for whatever reason the russian IC bug is back (or may have never left).

Sounds like a plan, Test Session Tomorrow.
I'll have a newer version of the mod with a lot of custom and fixes up later tonight probably.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2012 8:29:40 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
If anyone wants to drum up some noise in this thread to get some attention... feel free to let loose the propaganda dogs of war!

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2012 6:22:34 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Relatively successful test session.

KoM, Irsh, Fivion, Blayne, and Myself (also my laptop and Falador) were all able to successfully connect and test stuff out for a few hours. Fasquadron was able to connect but unable to stay connected for any real length of time.
But otherwise looking like a good place to start off from.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2012 7:12:58 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Connection Stuff _from a variety of sources, all uses the same multiplayer engine so all more or less applies.

Ports:
http://forums.ederon.net/default.aspx?g=posts&t=519


On Out of Syncs (or tech pick lag ect):

Quote:
I'd recommend at least one mbps upload speed for two players, unless you decide to put up with that. However, despite my 20 mbps upload speed, even I receive out of synch problems with just one friend in the same town with a similar connection. So the worst problem is in the game itself. It is even worse in the new generation of Paradox games (the Clausewitz engine).


On general connectivity and why its random for some people (fasq related)

Quote:
Geographical distance and especially infrastructure and traffic loads along the distance (even though the distance across the Atlantic is longer than the distance for example from Egypt to Sweden, the former will most likely be faster even if both connections have the same quality and capacity). Is an extremely important factor to take into account.


On why not to use something like hamachi adds significant overhead (obviously missing the part about properly configured router...)

Quote:
if all players are without hamachi and with external IP and normal connection (stable ping, channel over 1 mbit), then you will rarely face the problem. In HoI2 sometimes we could play 5 hours in a row with 8-12 players without single rehost.
If you use hamachi, sometimes their servers are down for instant and part or all hamachi players get dropped connection.


On UPNP (universal plug and play)

Quote:
We had some problems again shortly after I posted, where we could manage to join eachothers game but after like a minute or so we would disconnect from eachother, my friend could see me typing but i couldn't see him, the chance of joining eachothers games also seemed to be completely random, even with the exact same configuration you had to get lucky to manage to join. We DISABLED UPNP on our router(both of us) and we haven't had that problem again, this has been the case of previous hoi2 games also where disabling upnp fixed connection problems, after disabling upnp we have had no problems with connection and we haven't had to rehost once even. So if have tried everything else including ports, firewall, etc you may as well try disabling upnp on your router. Though it may be up to indivdual router and setups of course, but it has worked for me, so i advise anyone who are having problems to try that option.



On why to NOT pause in multiplayer

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?225337-Known-MP-disconnect-issue

In general I can't find much on the fasq style problem, it is likely just an infrastructure issue. The fact that his net dropped entirely suggests it maybe some sort of throttling by his internet provider? If he has a variant of DSL there seems to be much more reports of dropping from that than Cable.

If it is indeed from provider throttling you, then you can preempt it by self throttling, controlling your own level of uploading but thats not particularly easy thing to do and usually needs special hardware/software combo.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
Irsh Faq
Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2012 7:25:19 PM
 Primus pilus
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 8/29/2009
Posts: 1,640
Location: Ipswich, Massachusetts
I will say that the monday game has relatively frequent brief pauses while at war, for things like setting orders for mass air units and such, without disconnects. So perhaps it is just an hoi1 thing Or, the other thing is that they seem to imply pausing is okay as long as a lot of stuff is actually happening during the pause. So as long as you are still giving orders, deploying things, etc?

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2012 8:07:15 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Irsh Faq wrote:
I will say that the monday game has relatively frequent brief pauses while at war, for things like setting orders for mass air units and such, without disconnects. So perhaps it is just an hoi1 thing Or, the other thing is that they seem to imply pausing is okay as long as a lot of stuff is actually happening during the pause. So as long as you are still giving orders, deploying things, etc?
Like it says, if all the conditions are meet including stooping doing things like if going AFK while paused can cause issues. I've also seen it this problem happen before. Anyhow, just run it at slow and we should be fine.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
High Elder Ike
Posted: Monday, August 06, 2012 6:02:01 PM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 3/5/2008
Posts: 4,113
Location: AWOL
Are you finished before Winter?

[center]"Earthquakes are simply mother nature having a orgasm when she listens to March of the Penguins"
King of Men
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:29:07 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,216
Location: Nowhere
Blayne wrote:
Can you make an event that adds: 10 Years worth of manpower;
and then once at peace removes 80% of your current pool?
And then fires only if: You are at war AND at least one year has passed since the last time its fired?


I certainly can. Since it's not a conversion issue, I suggest you take it up with the GM, who is also the one doing the mod. (And most of the mapping work, I may add.)

That aside, it looks like OY is pretty permanently gone; should we go ahead and declare Dano permanent GM, and have him appoint a new vice-GM? (Or hold a vote, as the case may be.)

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2012 7:46:16 AM
 General of the Army

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/17/2007
Posts: 8,344
Location: Time
I don't mind.

Now regarding the event, I have posted some number and there is a very clear linear and rather insurmountable different in manpower. To the point that the game seems rather like inevitable victory for one of the four with the highest IC / manpower combinations; this combined with the clear experiences from the last great game, where Russia, Georgia and other nations that I subbed or otherwise took over, had all depleted their manpower after only a relatively small amount of fighting and were doomed to getting crushed and their armies wiped in the next war with no means of getting that manpower back.

The game lacks any means other than the linear daily growth to gain manpower; virtually any other resource, up to and including resources can be acquired through other means or produced. We have events that add manpower and events that add resources but the CWE events do not to my knowledge expand manpower.

Essentially any casualties are permament and irreplaceable, especially if you have a smaller country; and in fact several of the larger nations with rates of between .3 and .6 will have severe shortages of manpower after only 1 moderately intense war.

My experience is that wars between two evenly matched powers will drain hundreds of manpower extremely quickly, to the point that I feel that many countries just might not fight all together, it is an imbalance that distorts player behavior. I predict that as it is now, you'll simply see a massive coalition of countries slowly partitioning one weaker power one after another until they are all dead and only 2-3 remain.

Hearts of Iron is a game that was intended to end in 1949 and gave the principle belligerents years in which to build up manpower or had events or special triggers that would provide additional manpower. We are not the historical scenario, we are a simulator that conceptually would like to go to the year 2000, as it is now the game essentially says there's zero population growth.

As base manpower never increases, only your pool of "deployable" manpower.

As such, to insure smaller nations, and even the big ones should circumstances conspire to eliminate them at a moment of exhaustion, should get an "Oh Shit Button" or in our case an "event"; this event fires when you are at war, maybe if your manpower is below 900, and at least a year must have passed since the last war. And once at peace fires a "demobilization" event to take away most of the manpower received until the next war. The one year waiting period should be sufficient to prevent exploits to gain manpower.

This way suppose Kongo with its 3000 manpower at say, 1940 invade Punjab and its 400 manpower.

Mechanically and this is a fact, kongo can just attack Punjab's mountain forts over and over with unimaginatative frontal assaults and eventually win because within 6 months Punjabs manpower will hit zero and his divisions will get destroyed in front line fighting. No amount of skilled play can extend his manpower pool indefinately.

I feel this should keep everything at the power = power as composed from the V2 to Hoi2 conversion, I also feel that everyone with manpower less than 1000 should be brought up by about 500 mp points but thats separate discussion.

We absolutely need the "Oh Shit Button" because nations are pretty much going to die just by people taking turns attacking like jackals and that isn't fun at all, it's trite.

I feel very strongly about this.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Irsh Faq
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2012 3:30:26 PM
 Primus pilus
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 8/29/2009
Posts: 1,640
Location: Ipswich, Massachusetts
I'm starting a new job and they want me to work saturdays starting roughly noon (halfway through the game for those who are not on EST). I will see if I can get any flexibility with those hours, but I may need to resign or at minimum kidnap a peanut and coerce them into cooping me for half of the game time. Wink

-edit- Wrong thread! Moved.

And as an additional note, there is a decent chance, probably 50-50, that I would start another new job (well in this case return to an old seasonal job) in September. If I do that would make four overall and pretty well kill any chance I would have spare time for this game. So it may not be unwise to ask around whether anyone might be interested in cooping Ethiopia - and then there would be a new perm ready to go if that happens. I will do the same.

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
The Professor
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2012 4:15:31 PM
 General of the Army

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/17/2007
Posts: 8,344
Location: Time
[○・`Д´・○]

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
BlitzMartinDK
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 1:32:34 AM
 Lieutenant Colonel
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/13/2011
Posts: 628
Location: Denmark
High Elder Ike wrote:
Are you finished before Winter?


...Winter IS coming...
King of Men
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:44:52 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,216
Location: Nowhere
I hate to say it, but should we postpone another week? We now have a Congo problem to add to the less serious Croatia one. Also, as I was pretty strongly out of it with being sick this week - still not at my best, and then today and likely tomrrow I've had a bit of a crunch situation at work - very little of the intended final-converter-polishing got done. It looks a bit unlikely that I'll be able to do custom ministers before Saturday.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
Irsh Faq
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 3:52:56 AM
 Primus pilus
One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 8/29/2009
Posts: 1,640
Location: Ipswich, Massachusetts
Okay, but what happens if we reach next Saturday with no new players? It's been a while since we had a peanut recruit pan out (especially with our heavily modded game). Postponing one more week is okay, especially to improve the converter (and thanks again for the work on that, you and Dano and others), but I think we should play next Saturday come hell or high water.

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
danomite
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 4:41:20 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
King of Men wrote:
I hate to say it, but should we postpone another week?


Probably wise.

Irsh Faq wrote:
Okay, but what happens if we reach next Saturday with no new players?


I've been asking a few of the other people who use TS if they want in, possibly some interest - I'll have to prod some more. Most of those I am asking have atleast some hoi experience.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
King of Men
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 4:47:31 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,216
Location: Nowhere
Irsh Faq wrote:
I think we should play next Saturday come hell or high water.


Your point is well taken, yes.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:08:40 AM
 General of the Army

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/17/2007
Posts: 8,344
Location: Time
i dont mind converting from 1935 if fasq will stay, yoshis thtreatened worse.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
danomite
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:45:13 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/17/2008
Posts: 2,768
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
The Professor wrote:
i dont mind converting from 1935 if fasq will stay, yoshis thtreatened worse.
Thats not why he was quiting... His posts suggests its the politics that most got to him, and I can relate.

On role backs as player/voter: I continue to be opposed to undoing others rightful gains at the cost of rolling back to fix someone elses mistake.

As Vice GM: I am heavily leaning towards the existing event based fix, it seems to give Congo back most of its lost IC and whatnot within a year and IMO is a sufficient fix when all sides/stances on the issue are considered, and the time/effort put into the current solution.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
The Professor
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:51:44 AM
 General of the Army

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/17/2007
Posts: 8,344
Location: Time
Just to clarify I also agree that Kongo seems entirely fine, and I don't believe that the game is as zero sum as he says it is; but losing more players doesnt seem realistic and the events would still do most of the same thing even in 1935. I read Fasq's second paragraph as "convert from 1935 and I might stay."

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Matnjord
Posted: Friday, August 10, 2012 5:39:39 PM
 Captain

One Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/4/2011
Posts: 284
Location: London, the glittering city of trade
http://kotaku.com/europa-universalis-iv/

Oh boy! Oh boy! ITZ coming!!
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.