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BlitzMartinDK
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:56:18 PM
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King of Men wrote:
I must confess I'm really not seeing the problem here. :confused:


..well... actually : at start it was Germany shouldn't have had them, it was an unfortunate sideeffect of becoming a puppet of somebody. But that was WAD.
So now they were saying : " well, at least Germany's TC will be crippled..". And suddenly it isn't.

Instead Norways TC is crippled. But that doesn't matter, since they are AI anyways!

Isn't that the main points?
Gollevainen
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:58:34 PM
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Quote:
..doesn't his troops in those provinces get SR'd to his capital if doing it by ingame means?


Exactly. Thus doing it by edits gamey as hell..



Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:59:00 PM
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jodokus wrote:
land transfers during war to get around the fact that manually doing so would harm their player consentration which is the exact purpose why they manually are so difficould to do.
Yes except for the fact that we've done edits for things that are difficult or time consuming before...
I do agree that this is probably the strongest point, that its during a war, but I am not certain there is precedent against edits during a war... the lands are still in the war, its not like they are being edited out of the war or something silly like that.
It really isnt much different than if much of those lands were edited to me or cata instead.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
Fivoin
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:59:40 PM
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Nah, I'm allied to Norway. What troops I had there stays there, they don't get SR:ed.
Gollevainen
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:00:43 PM
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Editing those lands to any nations is a gamey exploiting to go around in-game proplems. It's impossiple to play games where the other side can do stunts like that.



Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
jodokus
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:00:58 PM
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we didnt do it even for the peace between us and germany last time, its convidient enough for edits made to help the other side, but if our side would have requested it, the answer would have just been "you can do it ingame".
Like it was when we requested that the peace to be edited.

danomite
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:01:48 PM
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BlitzMartinDK wrote:
Instead Norways TC is crippled. But that doesn't matter, since they are AI anyways!

Isn't that the main points?
Possibly best point yet, funny how no ones mentioned that yet... You could say it would violate the spirit of the rule to not abuse the ai... but technically others have done so far with out penalties, persia exp farming, dowing ai but not annexing for war time IC could all potentially fall under that ruling too...

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
The Professor
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:04:10 PM
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danomite wrote:
Yes except for the fact that we've done edits for things that are difficult or time consuming before...
I do agree that this is probably the strongest point, that its during a war, but I am not certain there is precedent against edits during a war... the lands are still in the war, its not like they are being edited out of the war or something silly like that.
It really isnt much different than if much of those lands were edited to me or cata instead.


Dano there are clear and long standing precedents against massive edits like this when it directly affects a war that is just simply self evident. Your point is disingenuous because it isn't relevant whether the lands are "still in the war" whats important is that the lands are no longer punishing Germany for holding them and no longer punishing him with extra mouse clicks if he were to hand it off to Germany during the war.

Abusing Norway's tc is an irrelevant point of no importance, because Germany isn't going to put troops there.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:05:54 PM
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jodokus wrote:
we didnt do it even for the peace between us and germany last time, its convidient enough for edits made to help the other side, but if our side would have requested it, the answer would have just been "you can do it ingame".
Like it was when we requested that the peace to be edited.
I said do the bulk of it ingame, as the game gets freaky and buggy when we edit too many different things and miss something... doing just a land transfer is easy as comparison to ending a multi sided war.
And you still could have done most the province transfers out side the game, it was primarily to end the war in a manner that didnt implode the game later.
I did about half my transfers out of game.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
Mighty G
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:07:38 PM
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Carry on, host up

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The Professor
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:08:16 PM
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King of Men wrote:
I must confess I'm really not seeing the problem here. :confused:


Did you not read my post?

Quote:

And you still could have done most the province transfers out side the game, it was primarily to end the war in a manner that didnt implode the game later. I did about half my transfers out of game.


Which isn't the relevant point, because you haven't demonstrated how being able to do land transfers through edits automatically makes all such transfers legitimate and without question. There are obvious counter examples Dano, and if there's obvious counter examples then how can our objections not have a valid basis for this example?

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 4:12:22 PM
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The Professor wrote:
There are obvious counter examples Dano, and if there's obvious counter examples then how can our objections not have a valid basis for this example?
IF there are obvious examples, do show us, cause KoM sure doesn't seem to remember...

EDIT:
Use non edited save. Ruling is made primarily on the basis of exploiting of the ai, rather than the trading of lands between nations within the same bloc.

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
Irsh Faq
Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 6:53:58 PM
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Quote:
Also: I see your Gujarat, Ceylon, Bengal, Tripoli, and Persia and raise you:
(Though I do admit I had more time )
HRE, France, Inca, England/Canada, Qin and Khmer.


Heh. I forgot about France. I guess that makes us only tied as I get at least as much share of destroying Khmer as you, having brokered the deal that partitioned it. And I'm pretty sure that still Golle gets more credit for destroying it than either of us Tongue

danomite wrote:
but technically others have done so far with out penalties, persia exp farming, dowing ai but not annexing for war time IC


Honestly, yes, extending a war is dodgy and ought to be forbidden.

But in that case KOM did a last minute edit to the conversion specifically to rob Ethiopia of the ability to day 1 annex Persia due to my successful occupation of its (original) key provinces in the v2 war. Its VP literally edited out from under the feet of my armies and into a backwater province that was landlocked and unreachable by me, done solely with the idea that the Persian army would then have the chance to inflict more damage on my nation and perhaps reverse the results of the war.

Doing such an edit was way more dodgy than not annexing a nation that the game has been edited midwar to prevent your annexation of. I apologize for nothing I gained by exploiting a war that should have ended Jan 1 1936.

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
BlitzMartinDK
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:40:48 AM
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+1
Irsh Faq
Posted: Sunday, December 02, 2012 5:01:05 PM
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There may or may not have been a moral to that story btw. (Slippery slope? "1. Dodgy edit. 2. ???? 3. Entire world at war with Portugal" perhaps?) I'm not sure; I don't really want to comment on the particular edit since I have not looked at a save since I left and have very little idea of what you were talking about or who is right.

Anyway what happen? Those who played through the last Great Game may (or may not) remember that I am a very nuke-happy peanut. I am getting itchy for some mushroom clouds.

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
jodokus
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 9:10:17 AM
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Nothing much... We advance in Poland, Germany has too much troops it to be just a walk-trough thing, but we have blood reserves to get trough
Some crashing that caused me to loose half of the german warbooty Battleships since I missed my retreat command in rehost... I really need brigade those remaining BB's properly so they can actually do something...
thank god the Former Ethiopian player was so farsigthed that he did put long serials of Carriers and heavy cruisers with all brigades on my que and....WAIT!
Big Grin
Spaniards teased me little bit by sending some futile landing attempts against St. Helena, but those werent serious events to take it, propably just to check wheter I was awake or not

Mark0628
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 10:42:18 AM
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Spain port striked my navy under Californian command i presume, for about 1 in game minute until he realized it was just Punjabs navy Sad
oddman
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 11:01:13 AM
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jodokus wrote:
Nothing much... We advance in Poland, Germany has too much troops it to be just a walk-trough thing, but we have blood reserves to get trough
Some crashing that caused me to loose half of the german warbooty Battleships since I missed my retreat command in rehost... I really need brigade those remaining BB's properly so they can actually do something...
thank god the Former Ethiopian player was so farsigthed that he did put long serials of Carriers and heavy cruisers with all brigades on my que and....WAIT!
Big Grin
Spaniards teased me little bit by sending some futile landing attempts against St. Helena, but those werent serious events to take it, propably just to check wheter I was awake or not


Aye, I sank them BBs like bricks.

I also took Ascension Island. Sadly, it has neither a port nor an airfield (yet - hurray for hurry production and fucktons of IC).

Mark0628 wrote:
Spain port striked my navy under Californian command i presume, for about 1 in game minute until he realized it was just Punjabs navy Sad


I thought it was a waste to bomb those nice, New Barcelona-built Toledo-class destroyers. So I bombed the ex-Japanese carriers instead.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
-Bertrand Russell
Irsh Faq
Posted: Monday, December 03, 2012 11:02:45 PM
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jodokus wrote:
thank god the Former Ethiopian player was so farsigthed that he did put long serials of Carriers and heavy cruisers with all brigades on my que and....WAIT!


You're right, carriers were clearly way more important use of Ethiopia's limited IC than tanks and planes Wink

I didn't put singe dang ship into build from 1936 to 1940, because there were more important things to build (and because carriers in the Indian Ocean suck).

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
jodokus
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 8:21:48 AM
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The more I play AoD the more I've come to realise that its the most important paramount to have good long serials starting from day 0 with 99 on the row and getting them retooling and geared up well ahead... Upgrading them lines later is less painfull than switching to otherlines as it used to be on Hoi.
Also, Carriers sucks perhaps in Barents sea in wintertime, but most of the parts (South East Asia) where I would need them, they would be most important to have. More to the pain is that despite Ethiopia did poses some level IV BBs (and got them from reparations from Germany...and if rumors are correct all these reparation units Africa got were actually spanish units sold to germany and ect...) but all those BBs...without any brigades!!! Capital radar and Capital FC don't cost much, and first thing one should always do with any country that has capital units as starting ones, is to put long serials of those on build, even if he wants to do IC/Infra whoring...

Even if the crash/rehost mistakes wouldn't have occured, I would have still lost that naval Battle in New Zealand, but Had my BBs been fully brigaded, the changes to get that suprise positioning and range would have lot more propable than it was now.

The Professor
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:57:11 AM
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They shouldn't have been out there though, fleet in being and all that.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
jodokus
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:29:18 PM
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No blayne,
fleet-in-beeing is pretty much down to succesfull sea controll capacity which mere existance is enough to conduct the mission without nessecity to leave a port. Against Carrier invest fleets like Catalunia, posseing war-reparation BB's is all the opposite. Fleet in beeing is always tied to Sea Controll and in this phase of the game, unbrigaded level IV BBs just cannot conduct it.
Therefore the naval doctrine we can do is Sea Denial and the school that we need is Juene École, which by mere basis calls for audacity that I conducted. Naturally it doesen't always score as success, expecially since the units in hand were not suited for such thinking, but even if the changes are 1 to 10, the risk was worth of taking. Had I succeeded in ranging Catalunian carriers, I would have prevented futher advance againt New Zealand and seriosly interupt allied naval shippings, since the battlefleet was the sole mean of defence for New Zealand that I currently had in my positions, together rather disposable asset for overal strategy.

Irsh Faq
Posted: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:30:30 PM
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jodokus wrote:
The more I play AoD the more I've come to realise that its the most important paramount to have good long serials starting from day 0 with 99 on the row and getting them retooling and geared up well ahead... Upgrading them lines later is less painfull than switching to otherlines as it used to be on Hoi.
Also, Carriers sucks perhaps in Barents sea in wintertime, but most of the parts (South East Asia) where I would need them, they would be most important to have. More to the pain is that despite Ethiopia did poses some level IV BBs (and got them from reparations from Germany...and if rumors are correct all these reparation units Africa got were actually spanish units sold to germany and ect...) but all those BBs...without any brigades!!! Capital radar and Capital FC don't cost much, and first thing one should always do with any country that has capital units as starting ones, is to put long serials of those on build, even if he wants to do IC/Infra whoring...

Even if the crash/rehost mistakes wouldn't have occured, I would have still lost that naval Battle in New Zealand, but Had my BBs been fully brigaded, the changes to get that suprise positioning and range would have lot more propable than it was now.


There are also some unexplained mechanics in AOD (such as force-engage) that absolutely must be understood when trying to use non-carriers against carriers.

And I had capital brigade serials in production when I departed? Confused IIRC secondary armament had been done up and fire control was to follow as soon as tech was up to date) (radar as well when the Kongolese industrial problems ceased to demand all my spare IC).

Emperor of Ethiopia, High King of Ceylon, Pharaoh of Alexandria, Sultan of Arabia, Prince of Antioch and Damascus, Lord Protector of the Tamil Coast, Maharaja of Gujarat, Bhatara of Java and Sumatra, Archduke of Australia, Captain of the Cape of Storms, Autocrat of Carthage, Sea Lord of the East Pacific, Caliph of Baghdad, and Defender of the Ark of the Covenant.
jodokus
Posted: Wednesday, December 05, 2012 5:48:36 AM
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There was I recall one seriall of secondary armament on que as I recall when taking over, but those all went to those orginal ethiopian BBs that were sacrificed during the Greece Evacuation...
Force Engagment indeed... but its not enough when you don't have any BB's left once you finaly on the rangeBig Grin

King of Men
Posted: Friday, December 07, 2012 6:22:52 PM
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