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Great Game V: Prisoners of the Earth, bound are the earth Options · View
The Professor
Posted: Saturday, January 12, 2013 8:26:25 PM
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Thread here a fresh jolly start for all involved.

Goals: Get a general outline of the converter process down solid before starting CK so now intermission argumentations.
-Solid and more comprehensive rules, and a clearer consensus as to the game culture.
-A fun time with less headaches and drama.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
danomite
Posted: Saturday, January 12, 2013 9:59:50 PM
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KoMs thread is here...

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?657597-Megacampaign-startup-thread&p=14855124

It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain.
If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world,
because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past.
The Professor
Posted: Saturday, January 12, 2013 10:24:28 PM
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Bunch of people already signed up for mine, I don't mind stepping aside and merging but I'm not the one to speak to about that.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Frosty
Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:23:15 AM
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The Professor wrote:
Bunch of people already signed up for mine, I don't mind stepping aside and merging but I'm not the one to speak to about that.


I will freely admit, so much as I don't think you are to bad to play with, I will not be joining a game with you at the helm. You just don't handle power or disagreement very well.

Jakalo wrote:
You sir shame us in the eyes of the rest of the world.

King of Men wrote:
  • Frosty AAR: Stab. Stab, STAB, SLASH, KILL!

  • el_zilcho321 wrote:
    God I hate Frosty.
    BlitzMartinDK
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 2:44:48 AM
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    Also : Would it be possible to state some sort of win-conditions, other than total conquest by one nation? evt. with part-win's as in at end of each sub-game giving points? and then adding those to get overall winner?
    The Professor
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 3:34:17 AM
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    Frosty wrote:
    I will freely admit, so much as I don't think you are to bad to play with, I will not be joining a game with you at the helm. You just don't handle power or disagreement very well.


    As I pointed out, if this is a problem I can step aside; but I don't think its fair to do so if it doesn't result in the games merging.

    I also point out that I had suggested a power sharing agreement where its three GM's with specific checks and balances.

    Quote:

    Also : Would it be possible to state some sort of win-conditions, other than total conquest by one nation? evt. with part-win's as in at end of each sub-game giving points? and then adding those to get overall winner?


    I haven't thought of that, typically the point of these games is just to keep playing and rp'ing until there's some general exhaustion in general, maybe some sort of points system could be jerry rigged up for funzies.

    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    Anders
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 4:35:57 AM
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    Why Saturdays and not Sundays?
    I expect most of us have a whole lot less to do on Sundays than on Saturdays.

    "Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

    King of Men wrote:
    Anders is correct.

    Fivoin wrote:
    Yeah, Anders is right.

    baronbowden wrote:
    I would tend to agree with Anders.

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    Mighty G
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:57:51 AM
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    Anders wrote:
    Why Saturdays and not Sundays?
    I expect most of us have a whole lot less to do on Sundays than on Saturdays.


    Sundays is out of the question for me. I work Mondays and allready have an ongoing monday game that will force me to sleep like a drunk baboon.



    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
    George Orwell

    Mighty G
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:00:01 AM
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    BlitzMartinDK wrote:
    Also : Would it be possible to state some sort of win-conditions, other than total conquest by one nation? evt. with part-win's as in at end of each sub-game giving points? and then adding those to get overall winner?



    A good idea maybe, given that these guys are spineless and only win in there blob alliances that never ever change.Evil Grin

    Maybe a a yard stick to gouge victory in each "era" might be neccesary?

    Personally im a solo flyer, if one nation doesnt rise above the rest to laud it over the rest then everyone settles for second place. Weakness is a disease and its symptoms are alliances that last more then one war. Anyone who joins an alliance at any point is basically screaming out "i am weak and cannot hold my own"

    Thus it has always been and will forever be in my eyes.



    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
    George Orwell

    Mighty G
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:04:47 AM
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    By the way, will this game be converted to the junky version of hoi again at the end?



    I have no CK or vicky experience so feel free to rape me in those games Smile

    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
    George Orwell

    jodokus
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:28:11 AM
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    can i rape you also in eu3Big Grin

    Regardless... you can avoid blobs by destroying blobs. You just need to keep the shamless lone wolf predators around more than in this one.

    Also, I am not joining this new game so soon...perhaps in eu3/euIV if I am intressed

    Mighty G
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:35:12 AM
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    jodokus wrote:
    can i rape you also in eu3Big Grin

    Regardless... you can avoid blobs by destroying blobs. You just need to keep the shamless lone wolf predators around more than in this one.

    Also, I am not joining this new game so soon...perhaps in eu3/euIV if I am intressed


    I smell fear...........



    As for Eu3, i seem to recall your novgorod paying my malacaa a handsome sum of money to leave your anus uncompromised in the current tuesday game. Smile

    You can bring your 1200 ducats and pay me off again Smile

    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
    George Orwell

    jodokus
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:40:50 AM
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    considering your achievmentsl against my little bit simple brother, I begun to think why on earth I did pay?
    ...then again, it was like my car was parked wrongly, and there was that attractive hooker (dave) with his tale on sale, and I just needed to get there fast, so few good bribes to the meter maid was nesserical



    Mighty G
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 10:54:48 AM
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    jodokus wrote:
    considering your achievmentsl against my little bit simple brother, I begun to think why on earth I did pay?
    ...then again, it was like my car was parked wrongly, and there was that attractive hooker (dave) with his tale on sale, and I just needed to get there fast, so few good bribes to the meter maid was nesserical




    hahahaha

    If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
    George Orwell

    BlitzMartinDK
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:43:45 PM
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    Mighty G wrote:
    A good idea maybe, given that these guys are spineless and only win in there blob alliances that never ever change.Evil Grin

    Maybe a a yard stick to gouge victory in each "era" might be neccesary?

    Personally im a solo flyer, if one nation doesnt rise above the rest to laud it over the rest then everyone settles for second place. Weakness is a disease and its symptoms are alliances that last more then one war. Anyone who joins an alliance at any point is basically screaming out "i am weak and cannot hold my own"

    Thus it has always been and will forever be in my eyes.



    "Simplest" version would be a ranking system for each game, for ex. the ingame reported victory points.

    Then give first player meta-points : (number of starting player nations for that game =NSPG) squared. And to the PLAYER who FINISHES playing that nation in said game. Since there is a tendency to shift players around a bit.

    Other players get (still alive in a playernation): (NSPG+1-placement) squared. Dead in a player nation only gives (number of death) squared. But can be counted more than once! -Here is your chance, Anders "the Destroyer of Nations"! Big Grin (for it to be easier to find replacements to take over hopeless situations/making ppl. play to the end..)

    For a bit of added tension, if players are within x% ingame victorypoints, consider them equally ranked at the lower rank, say one number 1, and two number 3, if numbers 2 and 3 are very close.
    If we have 3 players, 1-2-3, where 2 is within x% of 1, 3 is within x% points of 2, but 3 is NOT within x% of 1, we consider 1 and 2 to be equal ( at 2.nd place) and 3 to be at 3.rd place. etc.
    BlitzMartinDK
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 1:47:27 PM
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    oh. And next time : See if you cannot prevent one alliance having all of the coal! -also : having a working converter -eg. Vicky to HoI- as you START vicky might be good..I know it is difficult and a pain..Rolleyes
    Frosty
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 5:57:38 PM
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    The Professor wrote:

    As I pointed out, if this is a problem I can step aside; but I don't think its fair to do so if it doesn't result in the games merging.

    I also point out that I had suggested a power sharing agreement where its three GM's with specific checks and balances..


    I have not had the strength of reading through your thread, but as said I have no problem with you as a player per se. (Tho I prefer you on the other side of the map) Triumvirates are a no for me, what we need is a benevolent dictator, and a vice dictator who's only duty is stepping up when the dictator has the sniffles. No democracy apart from choosing the dictator, please.

    I'll C/P what I said in the pdox forum->


    As for the blobs; the problem lies basically in that we have a modern Machiavellian total war understanding of war and diplomacy. Especially since players don't forget a grudge after a few generations since it's still the same guy in charge.

    CKII is better for mp, in that it is hard to grab large chunks of territory, hard to get big claims, and troublesome to get in game alliances without risking your allies getting claims on your titles. Less likely we'll see as many total wars over a county or two.

    EU IV seems to have some good ideas for cores and overextension mechanics, that would have us prefer vassals over WWII style partitions. Time will tell.


    But it is hard to start wars when you know that if you take from another player he will want revenge, so you must not only take what you want, but also make sure the player is unable to take it back a few sessions down the line. Also there is the "never surrender!" mentality where you must achieve total victory to get a single province, and when you have total victory why settle for one province? But the mentality is necessary because if you fold then you are seen as weak and will be attacked again. If we made smaller victories easier to achieve we would avoid much of the total wars and world coalitions unnecessary.

    CK is a good guide here, wars are usually over a county or a duchy, to win you take that county and hold off the enemy till your score rises high enough.

    So for house rules; Perhaps we should ban Invasion cb's and using claimants on kingdom titles if you are already a king/emperor? If a player is under 10 provinces you must vassalize him instead of conquer? A player who conquers a player slot must accept a new player as his vassal in the same area (So if Spain conquers all of Italy he must give a 5 prov duchy to a new player if asked)?



    Jakalo wrote:
    You sir shame us in the eyes of the rest of the world.

    King of Men wrote:
  • Frosty AAR: Stab. Stab, STAB, SLASH, KILL!

  • el_zilcho321 wrote:
    God I hate Frosty.
    The Professor
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:13:56 PM
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    Probably, but for me it is a concern that a house divided cannot stand so I don't particularly care how its structured so long as we can all play.

    I think people will be okay with taking provinces from other people so long as they know that the other person cannot disaproportionally take back more than what was lost. We have to face facts that the diplomatic scene, given people's RL commitments and difficulty in communication as well as other factors (such as none of us being career politicians/diplomats) it isn't easy to judge when there should be intervention.

    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    Frosty
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:43:40 PM
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    The Professor wrote:
    Probably, but for me it is a concern that a house divided cannot stand so I don't particularly care how its structured so long as we can all play.


    This is less of a house divided against itself and more of you getting (understandably) upset over getting voted of the island. You have had a number of blank slates and do-overs, and that's just during the times I've been playing here. Sometimes you need to give people space to get over stuff, perhaps this is such a time for you? Perhaps what is needed for people to forgive and forget is you giving everyone a Blayne-break, to allow all the stuff you have done to annoy people to sink into the past. If you keep scratching a sore it'll never go away.

    So lets give people a chance to forget. Let's have two games (one of them can even move if needs be), either it will work out or one will fail and the people move over to the other. Remember that one of the things you do that irks others is not letting issues go, let this one go, people who are upset need to be given space to get over it. I would have preferred it otherwise, but it is what it is, you pushing it will just make people grumpier.



    Also, lets try to not have these discussions on pdox. I want to do an AAR, and our gang is impopular enough as it is without starting more drama.

    Jakalo wrote:
    You sir shame us in the eyes of the rest of the world.

    King of Men wrote:
  • Frosty AAR: Stab. Stab, STAB, SLASH, KILL!

  • el_zilcho321 wrote:
    God I hate Frosty.
    The Professor
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:56:03 PM
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    Not really, having the game start in the same timeslot as mine I think is also fairly upsetting, I wouldn't be nearly as concerned if it was moved to Sunday or later on or earlier in the day. Additionally even if a "game or two" were to pass by, there is no gaurantee that what you say is true, and I would likely have moved on with my life and be teaching English in Japan. I don't want the last thing I remember about my interactions with these games be the falling out with Rolf as we've known each other for a long time from Hatrack and I feel the pressing need to attempt to repair it before circumstances make it impossible.

    There's no point in actually arguing this, if I dispute it it will just be used as evidence that I am argumentative and dispute every little thing, that is the catch 22 your putting me in.

    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    Frosty
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:20:00 PM
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    The Professor wrote:
    There's no point in actually arguing this, if I dispute it it will just be used as evidence that I am argumentative and dispute every little thing, that is the catch 22 your putting me in.


    It is a catch 22. But you put yourself in it. You will notice nobody is terribly tired of playing with, say, KoM.

    Jakalo wrote:
    You sir shame us in the eyes of the rest of the world.

    King of Men wrote:
  • Frosty AAR: Stab. Stab, STAB, SLASH, KILL!

  • el_zilcho321 wrote:
    God I hate Frosty.
    The Professor
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:24:15 PM
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    People also don't want their backs next to King of Men either Wink

    Anyways, I agree that it is a Catch-22 largely of my own making and which is why I know there isn't any real point discussing it other than to post and display my own willingness to make amends.

    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    Frosty
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:27:11 PM
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    The Professor wrote:
    People also don't want their backs next to King of Men either Wink


    Au contraire, I'd very much want to have the French spot precisely so I can connive against his Scotland. Devil

    Jakalo wrote:
    You sir shame us in the eyes of the rest of the world.

    King of Men wrote:
  • Frosty AAR: Stab. Stab, STAB, SLASH, KILL!

  • el_zilcho321 wrote:
    God I hate Frosty.
    The Professor
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 8:49:04 PM
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    But will I

    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    King of Men
    Posted: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:30:36 PM
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    So this sort of thing is precisely why I resigned from being GM; it gives me ulcers. Is there, perhaps, some compromise we can reach, such that everyone plays with nobody's fun spoiled by drama? For example, can we place Blayne on one end of the map and oddman on the other? Require Blayne to make at most two posts of a specified maximum length on any given subject, and then shut up? (Mod enforced, to be sure.) Specify that certain pairs of players are not to communicate except through intermediaries?

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