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Anders
Posted: Thursday, July 10, 2014 8:30:45 PM
 Generalfeldmarschall

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal2012 Good Cause Support MedalBanned in ActionAuthor of 7000th post

Joined: 3/9/2007
Posts: 13,057
Location: Auf das der Adler wieder fliegt
The entire convo:
Quote:
Wednesday, July 09, 2014
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Consider yourself on probation
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): You won't be joining us until I'm satisfied with your apology post to Dunk, but to everyone else.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Do I make myself clear?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): ?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): That isn't a trick question.
Synario: well, I was going to apologize for leaving early after you made a very good point, but as a point of principle I can't apologize for rage-quitting as I don't feel like I did. RQ would infer I left with the intention to not return to the game..
Synario: I'm sorry..
Synario: =/
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): That is not the definition of rage quitting
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ragequit
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): "To stop playing a game out of an anger towards an event that transpired within the game."
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Its nothing about 'leaving forever'
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ragequit
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): There is not a single online definition that implies your definition
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so either you're the world's douchiest sperge who is just being a super autist in regards to semantics or your just a terrible troll whose acting in bad faith
Synario: well, rage-quitting, or leaving early, how I use the semantics is irrelevant, the significant detail is that I apologize for inconveniencing everybody
Synario: but
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): And will you?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I don't see it yet, I was even counting down to zero, and you're insisting on arguing with me, the GM, who will ban you, unless your apologize immediately
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Neither King of Men, nor Oddman, Nor Fivoin, nor Anders or Irsh or fasquardon, or anyone whose ever GM'd would have given you this chance.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): So I want a yes or a no answer
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): will you fucking apologize or are you not yet ready to join us again?
Synario: So
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): :-/
Synario: What's going on?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I'll explain
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): originally I said "You can come back but you should apologize to Dunk"
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): but your response to that, and a general unwillingness to actually admit fault pissed me off
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so I changed my mind, then you absolutely had to apologize
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and instead of making the thread and apologizing straight away
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): remember when I was counting down to zero?
Synario: so what's wrong with my current apology? Should I edit it and say that I did rage-quit?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Yeah, you should have done it then
Synario: I'm confused because I thought you agreed the semantics were irrelevant
Synario: =/
Synario: I'm only bringing this up because all my threads are being locked down
Synario: and discussion is being shut down
Synario: about it
Synario: I coudln't even post in the rulings thread to respond
Synario: or apologize there
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): The point is, instead of constantly arguing and 'defending yourself' from things you take 'strong offense to' you should have toughened up, sucked it up and apologized anyways
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): your being very Book!Jorah Mormont here
Synario: The point is
Synario: I hate internet drama
Synario: can we just end this now?
Synario: I'll edit my thread
Synario: and say I rage-quit
Synario: I enjoy this game and I just want everything to cool down
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): see, had you entirely left out everything between the 'However' and 'You agreed' your pm would have been fine
Synario: thats because its a private pm
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): but its still you ARGUING and CONTESTING and QUIBBLING
Synario: my public apology
Synario: contained no excuses
Synario: it was straight to the point
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Synario how do you not understand here?
Synario: I apologize to you
Synario: for reuining your game
Synario: and causing so much
Synario: chaos and disruption
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I don't need the apology
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): it was for DUNK and everyone ELSE
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): you should have posted that the INSTANT I asked you too
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): instead of arguing with me for an hour
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): in that whole hour you had, well, that whole damn hour to post something
Synario: Yes you are right
Synario: I shouldn't have argued
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I even basically wrote for you what the apology could havebeen
Synario: I should have apologized immediately
Synario: you are absolutely right
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): there's far deeper problems then that, but at least you contacting me and not me contacting you at least shows you actually WANT the position
Synario: Alright
Synario: So now what happens?
Synario: what so what happens now*
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): at this point you took too long to come around to your responsibilities, so you can't be italy
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so assuming the likely possibility a slot remains open you can have that
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): probably ends up being cherokee at this rate
Synario: Hmm
Synario: I think I have suffered enough, frankly
Synario: what is your reason for not wanting me to join italy specifically?
Synario: but other countries are okay?
Synario: You are right, I rage-quit
Synario: but under the circumstances
Synario: I returned before the next session
Synario: a week or 2 in advance of it
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): dude I just can't, my hands are tied, I have to be considerate to my Vice GM
Synario: I'm just saying it's pretty biased at this point
Synario: I've been ganking spain
Synario: with dunkl
Synario: since the start of the game
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): dude, you can perm, just not as italy
Synario: also his two reasons for wanting to ban me
Synario: I call into question
Synario: he says I destroyed my country
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Dunk's opinion is irrelevant for the specifics of this ruling; Jacob has his own reasons
Synario: I forgot that my title could be revoked whiel I was jailed
Synario: without getting the option to rebel
Synario: He also said I gaimed the AI rules
Synario: AI protection rules
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): stop assuming things are personal
Synario: Okay, so things aren't personal
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): whether or not you intended to do so, that is what happened
Synario: Okay,
Synario: thats a fresh start
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): by leaving dunk couldnt revoke your last title
Synario: things are not personal
Synario: and they are just based
Synario: solely on facts?
Synario: right
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): there based on what happened
Synario: so my actual factual crime was rage-quitting at the last session
Synario: but
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): sorta
Synario: my reply to that
Synario: is that I returned well in advance of the next session
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): actually it was your attitude
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): but regardless
Synario: that's into the personal territory
Synario: =/
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): there's NOTHING I can do unless Italy just doesnt have a perm
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): such as if cgreeene doesnt show up
Synario: well
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): does EUIV have coop?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): maybe you can coop with him though i suspect that would beboring as hell
Synario: Hmm
Synario: so
Synario: what happens
Synario: when you and the VGM?
Synario: disagree
Synario: a split down the middle
Synario: do you just discuss it until you both come to a one decision
Synario: Your original post says I"m to be banned forever unless I post an apology
Synario: Jakob concurs with the ban, which isn't necessarily what your post says
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): one sec
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): was typing something
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I agree that you apologized and that you can come back
Synario: so the reason I can't have italy is because I didn't immediately apologize within 60 seconds of your warning? That seems quite personal
Synario: That's my argument
Synario: You said we aren't making this personal
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): but the VGM wants us to be much harsher, (complete ban) and I need to agree with him sometimes and allow the VGM to be powerful than it is otherwise
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so a fair compromise is that you can come back
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): just not as italy
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): itld be better for you somewhere else
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): clean slate, new people as neighbours
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and if your cherokee you can annoy the fuck out of jacob
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and keep him from colonizinfg
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): also your stronger than italy would be now
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and better chance for new diplomacy
Synario: My plan as italy is to ally with alex as syria, pretty much
Synario: I know I can survive with him as an ally
Synario: Lots of people also agree with me
Synario: kodalem
Synario: yami to an extent
Synario: more
Synario: several people are shocked I"m being kicked out of my nation for rage-quitting 10 minutes before the game
Synario: ended
Synario: that's pretty drastic
Synario: and then returning before the next session
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): i wasnt contacted about this so I can't say
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): which is why you can come back as another country
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and no you wouldnt have survived allying Alex
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): you still have to deal with both Dunk and Jacob simply ganging you
Synario: well, this is what jakob wrote in thre thread:
Synario: So again, I concur with the ban on Synario on the grounds of destroying his nation and gaming the AI protect rules.
Synario: My defense is that I didn't intentionally destroy my nation
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): That doesn't matter
Synario: and that I did not game the AI rules
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): your defense doesnt matter
Synario: alex was under ai protection for 4 or 5 weeks
Synario: I was under ai protection for 2 weeks
Synario: about a month ago
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I am not challenging jacob's ruling, the matter is settled, take my compromise or leave it.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Which
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): to reiterate
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): is to perm another country
Synario: if you actually read jakob's post
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): or possibly italy, if no one is perming it
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I. Dont give. a flying. fuck.
Synario: it suonds like he is actually taking it qutie personally
Synario: and he isn't wholly basing his decision on the facts
Synario: I was going to say
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): And your ignoring what I'm saying.
Synario: I suppose I can return as italy
Synario: if I can convince jakob
Synario: to change his mind
Synario: but that will be difficult
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): no you won';t
Synario: if he has a peersonal grudge against me
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): trust me, based on how pissed off I am right now with your rules lawyering he'll be much more pissed
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and I'm a generous and forgiving guy
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so don't
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): because if he comes to me and complains about you pm'ing him about this, I'll have no choice but to agree with him and extend the ban further
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): do you understand?
Synario: OMG you are so fucking autistic..you don't understand how emotional context or anything works.
Synario: I'm the rules lawyring?
Synario: I'm trying to have a discussion with you
Synario: and your posting links from a dictionary
Synario: normal people don't do that
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): :rollseyes:
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): yes, insulting the GM whose trying to get you a second chance is really swell
Synario: this is the reason why everybody is so pissed off at you is because you are arbitrary as hell..there no central code you stick to
Synario: your decisions change on the fly
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I could always stick to my original decision, and simply ban you entirely
Synario: This isn't how you have a discusison with people. Why are threatening me every 10 minutes?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): So how about, you calm down, take a chill pill
Synario: nobody will read this chat, theres no reason to threaten me
Synario: ?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I'm not threatening you
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I am simply tired of you constantly arguing about something that is settled.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I am not changing my decision, nor jakob's decision
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I have offered you a compromise
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Do you accept it, yes or no?
Synario: Yes
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Then the matter is closed.
Synario: you realize you don't have to be in the GM role when you having a private conversation though right?
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Keep your head down, consider yourself on probation for a while until euiv starts
Synario: you can just talk to me as if we are two players
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): we're discussing your situation in my position and authority as the GM
Synario: Already
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): now that the matter is closed, we can discuss other things as players
Synario: the matter is closed
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): there exists a distinction
Synario: can we discuss the same topic as players
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): not really
Synario: with the understanding the ruling won't be changed
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Because I have better things to do
Synario: Alright
Synario: not as a GM
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): we can talk about other things, but I'm not saying anything that could undermine my VGM's authority
Synario: but just as player
Synario: it's really frustrating arguing with you because you keep getting tied down in this weird meta arguments about the defintions of words or some weird topic totally unrealtted.
Synario: like when we were arguing
Synario: about the rules
Synario: over ideas
Synario: and stuff
Synario: i just feel like I have to get this off my cheset:
Synario: chest*
Synario: I tried to appease you by saying I rage-quit
Synario: but from start to finish, with no interruptions please
Synario: this is what happened
Synario: SO dunk killed my wife, and in revenge I rebelled
Synario: he managed to imprison me
Synario: I'm totally used to AI vassals
Synario: always rebelling when I tryi to revoke their titles
Synario: sO i forgot he could revoke my title while I was imprisoned
Synario: REeally stupid of me
Synario: but thats exactly what it was
Synario: pure stupidity
Synario: not intentional trolling
Synario: in addition, I was like OMG are you serious jakob??? when he said I gamed the AI rules
Synario: alex was under ai protection for 4 weeks
Synario: totally against the rules
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): none of this is really relevant to the discussion
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): the GM can change them as he sees fit
Synario: but you arbitrarily said "It's okay because I think it's okay"
Synario: exactly
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I think therefore I am
Synario: the reason that is BAD is because it means nobody can follow the rules because they have no idea what the rules are
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): well thats just being silly
Synario: in most multiplayer games people don't get perm. banned even if they rage quit and come back 4 weeks later
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Alex asked for an extension, thus i granted it
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): there is still a status quo
Synario: this is the first MP game I've been banned from for RQ'ing and then RETURNING before the next session
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): that proves a basic expectation exists
Synario: I just want to let you know how radically
Synario: bizarre that is
Synario: and overreaching
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): the next session is EUIV's first session
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): your splitting hairs there
Synario: I can tell you
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and I had to contact you about that
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and again, it isnt that simple
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): originally you could come back no problem
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): then you pissed me off
Synario: So again, I concur with the ban on Synario on the grounds of destroying his nation and gaming the AI protect rules.
Synario: Zilcho, really? He can come back if he makes a public apology, this is not a high bar. He doesn't even have to mean it, he can just say it, I have no means of confirming it though I have 99% certainty that he's not actually sorry for what he did, insists he didn't rage quit and that he only "accidentally" deleted me and everyone else from steam, only has to say 'sorry guys I goof'd" I even wrote for him something he could have posted word for word and still refused and changed the subject.

I'm baffled that this can be even remotely controversial besides from Anders. Remember I'm the one who went to the effort to pm him to come back, he would not have bothered unless I did.
Synario: wrong quote
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so you were in effect, banned for pissing me off, nothing more
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Jacob's interpretation is rules based, your intent isn't relevent there
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): but nevertheless, I asked him for an concurrence, he concurred
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): so that makes his opinion binding
Synario: wait I wanted to point something out that you said:
Synario: you said I claimed
Synario: to accidentally delete you
Synario: I later said
Synario: that I intentionally deteted you
Synario: because I didn't want to get a bunch of angry messages after I left the game
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): not sure you're helping your case there
Synario: thats a blatant lie on yoru part
Synario: I'm just pointing it out
Synario: though its a smallone
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I said something that was more complimentary of your intentions and your complaining about it? Heh.
Synario: I literally had a point where I was counting from 60 to 0... And he insisted on arguing that he didn't technically rage quit instead of agreeing to apologize to Dunk.
Synario: I mean
Synario: this is where I have to call you the A word
Synario: you don't think a grown man
Synario: would be like
Synario: Oh hell naw
Synario: if somebody was counting down
Synario: warning them to say sorry
Synario: or they'd be int rouble
Synario: I mean you don't think a grown adult woudl be terribly offended
Synario: by being treated like a child in time-out?
Synario: Not only was offfensive
Synario: it was very childish of you
Synario: the reason
Synario: well
Synario: remembetr when I said you made a really good point
Synario: what I was talking about was I realized I was wrong
Synario: for leaving early
Synario: but
Synario: after that happened
Synario: you started threatening me
Synario: and counting down from 60
Synario: I thoguth the mature thing to do would be to wait to apologize on my own terms
Synario: not because you were threatening me
Synario: I didn't want to give you the satisfication of thinkign I had apologized just because you held a loaded gun to my head
Synario: in effect
Synario: but I did realize I was wrong
Synario: I just didn't like how you were treating me
Synario: also
Synario: at the end of our conversation
Synario: I swear to god
Synario: my mom came in the room and asked to use my computer
Synario: I was like
Synario: I should think this situatin over
Synario: while I'm not on the computer
Synario: this is a good oppurtunity
Synario: to get off
Synario: so I let her on
Synario: I didn't realize you would act so rapidly fast
Synario: I thoguht I had at least
Synario: a few hours
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): you had ample time prior to then to have posted
Synario: to pots a thread
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): that's your fault.
Synario: I wasn't on the computer
Synario: Thats what I just said
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): no, during the whole conversation
Synario: well
Synario: If you read what I wrote
Synario: I didn't do it because I felt offended
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): you were certainly talking to me for about an hour
Synario: by your condesention
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): that's your fucking problem.
Synario: I wanted to wait a few hours after we finished talking
Synario: and then pots it
Synario: post It up*
Synario: I didn't want to apologize because you had threatened me
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and look where its gotten you
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): no more italy, how sad.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): No doing something because somehting offends you is called immaturity
Synario: I'm serious dude, You don't realize how childish you sound right now???
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I could have simply kept you banned, because you offended me, but I didn't.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): So that's the difference
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I can see past my own anger and do the responsible thing
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): you didn't.
Synario: Are you still mad at getting banned a year ago in that game
Synario: and now your taking
Synario: all your rage out on me
Synario: YOu were the one who got banned
Synario: now you hav ethe satisfication
Synario: of banning somebody else
Synario: for a dumb reason
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I can cast aside all my shame, all my dignity, lower and debase myself to any level, lower than the lowliest insect, pretend any amount of empathy or fake any amount of contrition and do it CONVINCINGLY if I want something, because I GET what I want.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): and they'll never know what I REALLY think about them
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): because I know that any hint of my actual thoughts, of my actual umbrage, and they'll be on to me, they'll see past the cleverly crafted illusion and see who I really am
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): learn from the master
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): learn from your mistakes
Synario: My gawd..
Synario: *stares in disbeleif*
Synario: =D
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Big Grin
Synario: my fatal flaw is I'm too honest
Synario: =P
Synario: I'm too much of a good person
Synario: =P
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Be happy, I have single handedly secured for you the best possible start position in the game, now pick your banana's and fuck up jacob to your hearts content.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): Losing italy is the price of your initial failures.
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): learn from it and improve my young padawon
Synario: okay, I mean I might not want to rejoin considering you basically admitted your one of the shittiest GM's on earth
Synario: =P
Synario: But
Synario: I might stay around for a few weeks
Synario: eh
The Professor - Sid (Pdox): I prefer to be laissez faire


"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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