Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

5th HOI4 MP Campaign Options · View
baronbowden
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:15:37 PM
 General of the Army

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 4,104
Location: Canada
BUT no we werent discussing 100% of production only you, and then using silly statements not really based on reality to back it up.

baronbowden wrote:
Gotcha, in more competitive games you use the 15ish mil factories Spain will rock and tech slot to focus down one type of plane (i prefer NAV).
Maybe you didnt know this, but by war Spain doesnt usually have only 15 mil factories...

I was pointing out that Spain fills an important role in the axis via a focused research system in hoi4 hence normally the idea that the axis not having spain isnt a big deal is incorrect in hoi4. Nothing to do with fake RL arguements, 100% of production etc.

Chimaera72 wrote:

If we want a plain old game of RISK then we can go here instead

http://www.pogo.com/games/risk


Yea risk is fun. As much on topic as your original 100% strange tangent.



Famous Quotes

KhanXLT: day to day, lucky things happen to me
KhanXLT: you know, little things
Newman: lol that husky girl behind the counter at the grocery store gave you her number didnt she!!!!

El_Zilcho321: Euro balance = ban BB
Chimaera72
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:21:48 PM
 2nd Lieutenant

Joined: 5/14/2013
Posts: 135
Location: Stockholm
What I wrote is still there for everyone to read, and there still is nothing strange with what I stated.
Chimaera72
Posted: Friday, January 13, 2017 11:34:59 PM
 2nd Lieutenant

Joined: 5/14/2013
Posts: 135
Location: Stockholm
Chimaera72 wrote:
What I wrote is still there for everyone to read, and there still is nothing strange with what I stated.


baronbowden wrote:

baronbowden wrote:
Gotcha, in more competitive games you use the 15ish mil factories Spain will rock and tech slot to focus down one type of plane (i prefer NAV). Saves Germany a much needed resource slot and with another Axis minor on strat bombers fills major gaps in axis capabilities. From there when war breaks out not only is it the straw that always breaks france's back with the extra front, taking Portugal brings Guarda into the axis which is one of the key states you need to annex.


This sentence(in bold) can easily be interpreted as, 15 factories is all the factories Spain has available, I know that one of your recent comments says that 15 factories is not all the factories that Spain has available that they in fact have more than 15, I don't know if this is true or not and I don't care, it's not relevant in regards to my comment. My comment regarding 100% was made from reading your text in bold, and the fact that other people has stated that in competitive games the minors commit all their production(100%) to the majors, and that is what my comment was about.

And my comment about RISK was made because for me 'the competitive games' of HOI seems as exiting as a game of boardgame RISK, which in my opinion is not very exiting at all Cool
baronbowden
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:01:13 AM
 General of the Army

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 4,104
Location: Canada
Chimaera72 wrote:


And my comment about RISK was made because for me 'the competitive games' of HOI seems as exiting as a game of boardgame RISK, which in my opinion is not very exiting at all Cool


LOL whereas I get off crushing that 8 year old across the table; his tears are my sustenance.

People saying they commit all their production to majors should just be read as "do as instructed by Germany", after all either the Axis or the allies win. It might not matter in this group (i dont know the players other than anders) but tech focus specialising is the only hope axis has. When you have what? 10 human players in the allies... its a tough slog with a 'historical' route. And I do think the knee jerk reaction of NO I wont be smart and produce what the team needs because history, is a slippery slope in a group that again seems to think the soviets sending 4 full tank divisions to Spain is somehow historical/allowed.


As an aside on the Spain factory thing; sorry I thought it was common knowledge.
The ideal opener as Spain is to only take Industrial effort. Your next few (imo) are Naval/Aviation.
Civil War breaks out you start taking armament/construction and the commies are doing the same.
Spain starts with idk I think 7-8 mil factories 3ish dockyards and after you spend your first PP on Partial Mob about 15 civ factories.
You get a net of between 4-6 mil factories from focuses (civil war) and usually another 5 civ from focuses. I havnt played it in MP in a while, I think last time I built about 15-20 mil factories before 39. So by 39 in the range of 30 for an ok player?
The NAV focus for Spain works well because it starts with NAV1 and then beeline NAV2 which comes into production around mid 37. Often with enough air exp to even upgrade to a variant right away from the civil war.
The chromium and tungsten Spain ends up giving the axis is also a huge beautiful perk.
The Pyrenees also create low downside for invasion from America.






Famous Quotes

KhanXLT: day to day, lucky things happen to me
KhanXLT: you know, little things
Newman: lol that husky girl behind the counter at the grocery store gave you her number didnt she!!!!

El_Zilcho321: Euro balance = ban BB
Marine
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:23:51 AM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
Quote:
4 full tank divisions to Spain is somehow historical/allowed.


For next Campaign this will not be allowed!

No One has sent that many before in our group.
Demosthenes
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 12:49:53 AM
 Private 1st Class

Joined: 1/5/2017
Posts: 23
For the record, I sent 5. And it's what anyone would do.
baronbowden
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:00:17 AM
 General of the Army

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 4,104
Location: Canada
Demosthenes wrote:
I sent 5.


lol best line of the day.



Famous Quotes

KhanXLT: day to day, lucky things happen to me
KhanXLT: you know, little things
Newman: lol that husky girl behind the counter at the grocery store gave you her number didnt she!!!!

El_Zilcho321: Euro balance = ban BB
Marine
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:36:15 AM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
Demosthenes wrote:
For the record, I sent 5. And it's what anyone would do.


Nobody in our group has sent so many before, changes are coming to prevent that amount. IRL they did not even sent a Division.
baronbowden
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 11:38:05 AM
 General of the Army

Joined: 1/27/2013
Posts: 4,104
Location: Canada
Marine wrote:
Nobody in our group has sent so many before, changes are coming to prevent that amount. IRL they did not even sent a Division.


No idea if it was true, I was in a museum in Barcelona a few weeks ago, and they referenced something like the 5 tanks Russia sent as being the inspiration for building their own Spanish tanks.

With all the breaks they take, they might have then produced another 2 of thoseTongue



Famous Quotes

KhanXLT: day to day, lucky things happen to me
KhanXLT: you know, little things
Newman: lol that husky girl behind the counter at the grocery store gave you her number didnt she!!!!

El_Zilcho321: Euro balance = ban BB
Alex_brunius
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:07:20 PM
 Hauptmann

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 9/19/2011
Posts: 356
Marine wrote:
Nobody in our group has sent so many before, changes are coming to prevent that amount. IRL they did not even sent a Division.


I'm pretty sure I sent 5 divisions as Soviet to SCW last game I played them. They were not all tanks though, but a bit of a mix IIRC, I think it was 3 tanks + 2 other.
Marine
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:23:41 PM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
Alex_brunius wrote:
I'm pretty sure I sent 5 divisions as Soviet to SCW last game I played them. They were not all tanks though, but a bit of a mix IIRC, I think it was 3 tanks + 2 other.


Sorry must have missed that ,since i was not Spain then, but as you said all was not Armor. So then maybe they did not have the same impact and that he who played Spain got help and that he was better than me Smile
Demosthenes
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 1:40:58 PM
 Private 1st Class

Joined: 1/5/2017
Posts: 23
"With all the breaks they take, they might have then produced another 2 of those"
I'm Spanish. Casual racism best racism I guess.
Marine
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 8:38:56 PM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
It´s going to be interesting now on wednesday to see how Japan is going to turn the tide soon and to see how the attack on France goes,Big Grin
Marine
Posted: Saturday, January 14, 2017 10:00:15 PM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
Hm, holy shit I just played as Spain against the AI and was beaten, so I really suck at this game...
I will do emerge from the AshesBig Grin
Chimaera72
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 5:36:31 PM
 2nd Lieutenant

Joined: 5/14/2013
Posts: 135
Location: Stockholm
So another game comes to end before the majority of players even got involved in the war itself, this time ending before 1940(again I believe?).

Well played, can´t really say it was fun, but well played Punk .

I think I spent most of my time Alt-Tabbed outside the game doing other stuff with my headphones on low volume just because I got tired of hearing the same thing over and over again, which was pretty much revolving around 'why speed 1?' and 'what are they doing?' basically spending most of the time bashing the other sides decisions, and this was being done pretty much ad nauseam for 4 hours.

I get a strong feeling that we as a gaming group(the original 7-8 ppl) have not come through to the new crowd as to what we like to accomplish with our games.

In a short explanation you could say that the aim is pretty much to start out the war as the '1939 Scenario' starts, but with the added bonus of being able to play from 1936 building up/gearing up and getting prepared for the big war, and in this way hopefully get a long lasting war that rages on to 1944 and beyond.

If this has been unclear before, well we as a group has to apologize as we probably have not made our intentions clear in regards of how we like to play this game.


In the future when we invite people to play with us I think the following highlights might be good to add to our groups profile.

- I am a casual Hoi4 player with a laid back attitude and open mind.

- I don´t spend my time brooding over or bashing other players decisions. It's more satisfying using positive reinforcement and coming up with hints and pointers what could be done instead of saying that someone sucks or are worthless at what they are doing.

- I can understand that some people like to experiment and NOT do everything the most optimized way possible every new game session, because the game mechanics promotes certain optimized builds/templates and so forth. There is a curiosity and excitement to try something different sometimes.

- I don´t demand that my co-players play by my book and do as I say. Each player is his own head of government and should play it as if it was their own country, cooperation yes! but being told what to do? No!

- I appreciate that we are not playing HOI4 in a competitive way, but rather in a relaxed and laid back approach.

- Killing off the other side in the shortest time possible setting a new record in the world shortest WWII game is not the goal in our game sessions. Rather than a 100m dash to the finish line I like to savour every moment like a glass of good whine(or whiskey/beer etc.).

- I can understand why people need to be at speed 1 during war, even if it is frustratingly slow.

- New players to HOI4 (newbies) are welcome to play with us as we think we are a quite relaxed group and try to play this game without much prestige, friendly banter does occur but we don't bash each other with the intent of actually trying to make someone fell uncomfortable. And trying to win the game for bragging rights for being the best player is a moot point in this game as anyone can just dive the forums for the best and most optimized ways to play a certain country, which is not a measure on how good you really are.

*If you feel that you match the above criteria in some ways (perhaps not all but you get the gist of it), then feel welcome to join the group*
*If NOT then there are plenty of other groups out there waiting for your competitive and lovingly provocative persona*

This is just a short draft... as I come to think about more I´ll add them to the list.

Now being pretty much the newest member joining this group during 'HOI3 their finest hour' I write this from my point of view and how I understand how the group has been playing HOI3/HOI4 so far, I might not be speaking for all 8(ish) people from the original group here, but this is pretty much how our sessions in HOI3/HOI4 has been in regards of mindset and camaraderie .
Redcoat
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:31:51 PM
 Tesserarius

One Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/23/2011
Posts: 92
Location: Stockholm
My 2 Cents of a game I didn´t play!
I’m sorry to hear that the game turned out that way, however I am very happy that I missed that game and I sincerely hope I will never experience that kind of game ever!! A Game should be fun and challenging in a tactical or operational manner, not based on how to best use the game or specific events/stats! If this is the future, count me out! I will not participate. It should be a battle of minds and on how to utilise your forces in the best manner available.

Now I didn´t play the last game, but China invading Japan requires to me a clear violation of the spirit of the game (something is very wrong). Imagine in real life, in 1937-39 that the Chinese navy defeats the Japanese navy and makes a landing in Nippon. All five ships defeats the small Jap navy of 100:s, easy!!! – Not! It must be the very sign of someone who can’t win by ordinary means but with a petty mind, and using game flaws, and do not care to inform anyone, and do not care about fair play at all! If you fail to see this, you are already a looser! This is not my kind of game, what is the fun in this???
Even if Chimera is very polite, I will make my standpoint very clear and impolite (sorry for that)! I will not play such a game – ever! People without guts and glory, prepared to do some hard work, I feel should not be welcomed to the community!

As a consequence I agree with Chimera and his view of the mindset!!! He speaks for me, but I would like to add even more and then even some more!
I love our games, they have been hard, more or less even, fairly realistic (losses are normally due to my choice of some sort or my bad actions) but still fun!

Please correct me if I am wrong!

Best Regards!

Marche pour les Suédois (Narvamarschen)
Redcoat
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:34:42 PM
 Tesserarius

One Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/23/2011
Posts: 92
Location: Stockholm
Sorry for my text, but I am a bit upset....

Marche pour les Suédois (Narvamarschen)
Chimaera72
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:43:10 PM
 2nd Lieutenant

Joined: 5/14/2013
Posts: 135
Location: Stockholm
Redcoat wrote:
Sorry for my text, but I am a bit upset....


Big Grin Thumbs Up
Marine
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:01:18 PM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
Chimaera72 wrote:
So another game comes to end before the majority of players even got involved in the war itself, this time ending before 1940(again I believe?).

Well played, can´t really say it was fun, but well played Punk .

I think I spent most of my time Alt-Tabbed outside the game doing other stuff with my headphones on low volume just because I got tired of hearing the same thing over and over again, which was pretty much revolving around 'why speed 1?' and 'what are they doing?' basically spending most of the time bashing the other sides decisions, and this was being done pretty much ad nauseam for 4 hours.

I get a strong feeling that we as a gaming group(the original 7-8 ppl) have not come through to the new crowd as to what we like to accomplish with our games.

In a short explanation you could say that the aim is pretty much to start out the war as the '1939 Scenario' starts, but with the added bonus of being able to play from 1936 building up/gearing up and getting prepared for the big war, and in this way hopefully get a long lasting war that rages on to 1944 and beyond.

If this has been unclear before, well we as a group has to apologize as we probably have not made our intentions clear in regards of how we like to play this game.


In the future when we invite people to play with us I think the following highlights might be good to add to our groups profile.

- I am a casual Hoi4 player with a laid back attitude and open mind.

- I don´t spend my time brooding over or bashing other players decisions. It's more satisfying using positive reinforcement and coming up with hints and pointers what could be done instead of saying that someone sucks or are worthless at what they are doing.

- I can understand that some people like to experiment and NOT do everything the most optimized way possible every new game session, because the game mechanics promotes certain optimized builds/templates and so forth. There is a curiosity and excitement to try something different sometimes.

- I don´t demand that my co-players play by my book and do as I say. Each player is his own head of government and should play it as if it was their own country, cooperation yes! but being told what to do? No!

- I appreciate that we are not playing HOI4 in a competitive way, but rather in a relaxed and laid back approach.

- Killing off the other side in the shortest time possible setting a new record in the world shortest WWII game is not the goal in our game sessions. Rather than a 100m dash to the finish line I like to savour every moment like a glass of good whine(or whiskey/beer etc.).

- I can understand why people need to be at speed 1 during war, even if it is frustratingly slow.

- New players to HOI4 (newbies) are welcome to play with us as we think we are a quite relaxed group and try to play this game without much prestige, friendly banter does occur but we don't bash each other with the intent of actually trying to make someone fell uncomfortable. And trying to win the game for bragging rights for being the best player is a moot point in this game as anyone can just dive the forums for the best and most optimized ways to play a certain country, which is not a measure on how good you really are.

*If you feel that you match the above criteria in some ways (perhaps not all but you get the gist of it), then feel welcome to join the group*
*If NOT then there are plenty of other groups out there waiting for your competitive and lovingly provocative persona*

This is just a short draft... as I come to think about more I´ll add them to the list.

Now being pretty much the newest member joining this group during 'HOI3 their finest hour' I write this from my point of view and how I understand how the group has been playing HOI3/HOI4 so far, I might not be speaking for all 8(ish) people from the original group here, but this is pretty much how our sessions in HOI3/HOI4 has been in regards of mindset and camaraderie .


Well written, i will write down my own feelings and thoughts a little later.
Marine
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:02:21 PM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 10/14/2011
Posts: 672
Location: Uppsala/Sweden
Redcoat wrote:
Sorry for my text, but I am a bit upset....


Don't be´ sorry...
Anders
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 9:39:05 PM
 Generalfeldmarschall

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal2012 Good Cause Support MedalBanned in ActionAuthor of 7000th post

Joined: 3/9/2007
Posts: 13,057
Location: Auf das der Adler wieder fliegt
Redcoat wrote:
Imagine in real life, in 1937-39 that the Chinese navy defeats the Japanese navy and makes a landing in Nippon.

Not what happened. China landed paratroopers on a nearly undefended Japan.
Japan could probably have held off China almost indefinately if he had pulled back from China when he started running out of equipment, and huddled on the Korean-Manchurian border.
He made two critical errors early on, which led to his defeat:
1. He did not optimize his army for combat in China. Apparently he did not have sufficient artillery in his divisions, nor enough tanks.
2. He attacked China too late. You can attack China late, but you need to have a good army and airforce to win.
China had lend-lease, but that only came a whole month after the war started, by which time in a normal game, Japan has pushed China to the Yellow River. At the same time though, the Axis were lend-leasing Japan plenty of planes, right up to the capitulation.



"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Jorgen_CAB
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:47:17 PM
 Corporal

Joined: 12/28/2016
Posts: 33
Chimaera72 wrote:
So another game comes to end before the majority of players even got involved in the war itself, this time ending before 1940(again I believe?).

Well played, can´t really say it was fun, but well played Punk .

I think I spent most of my time Alt-Tabbed outside the game doing other stuff with my headphones on low volume just because I got tired of hearing the same thing over and over again, which was pretty much revolving around 'why speed 1?' and 'what are they doing?' basically spending most of the time bashing the other sides decisions, and this was being done pretty much ad nauseam for 4 hours.

I get a strong feeling that we as a gaming group(the original 7-8 ppl) have not come through to the new crowd as to what we like to accomplish with our games.

In a short explanation you could say that the aim is pretty much to start out the war as the '1939 Scenario' starts, but with the added bonus of being able to play from 1936 building up/gearing up and getting prepared for the big war, and in this way hopefully get a long lasting war that rages on to 1944 and beyond.

If this has been unclear before, well we as a group has to apologize as we probably have not made our intentions clear in regards of how we like to play this game.


In the future when we invite people to play with us I think the following highlights might be good to add to our groups profile.

- I am a casual Hoi4 player with a laid back attitude and open mind.

- I don´t spend my time brooding over or bashing other players decisions. It's more satisfying using positive reinforcement and coming up with hints and pointers what could be done instead of saying that someone sucks or are worthless at what they are doing.

- I can understand that some people like to experiment and NOT do everything the most optimized way possible every new game session, because the game mechanics promotes certain optimized builds/templates and so forth. There is a curiosity and excitement to try something different sometimes.

- I don´t demand that my co-players play by my book and do as I say. Each player is his own head of government and should play it as if it was their own country, cooperation yes! but being told what to do? No!

- I appreciate that we are not playing HOI4 in a competitive way, but rather in a relaxed and laid back approach.

- Killing off the other side in the shortest time possible setting a new record in the world shortest WWII game is not the goal in our game sessions. Rather than a 100m dash to the finish line I like to savour every moment like a glass of good whine(or whiskey/beer etc.).

- I can understand why people need to be at speed 1 during war, even if it is frustratingly slow.

- New players to HOI4 (newbies) are welcome to play with us as we think we are a quite relaxed group and try to play this game without much prestige, friendly banter does occur but we don't bash each other with the intent of actually trying to make someone fell uncomfortable. And trying to win the game for bragging rights for being the best player is a moot point in this game as anyone can just dive the forums for the best and most optimized ways to play a certain country, which is not a measure on how good you really are.

*If you feel that you match the above criteria in some ways (perhaps not all but you get the gist of it), then feel welcome to join the group*
*If NOT then there are plenty of other groups out there waiting for your competitive and lovingly provocative persona*

This is just a short draft... as I come to think about more I´ll add them to the list.

Now being pretty much the newest member joining this group during 'HOI3 their finest hour' I write this from my point of view and how I understand how the group has been playing HOI3/HOI4 so far, I might not be speaking for all 8(ish) people from the original group here, but this is pretty much how our sessions in HOI3/HOI4 has been in regards of mindset and camaraderie .


I mostly played EU4 on my laptop... that eventful was that game... Wink

I know almost all the cheesy play and refuse to use ANY of it just for winning, that is boring. As long as everyone are on the same page on abusing game mechanics things should stay fun... I hope. Smile

I have not been with you guys before but I understand what you are saying and I agree with you.

Speed 1?!? that is like lightning speed for me... Wink
Jorgen_CAB
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:07:57 PM
 Corporal

Joined: 12/28/2016
Posts: 33
Anders wrote:
Not what happened. China landed paratroopers on a nearly undefended Japan.
Japan could probably have held off China almost indefinately if he had pulled back from China when he started running out of equipment, and huddled on the Korean-Manchurian border.
He made two critical errors early on, which led to his defeat:
1. He did not optimize his army for combat in China. Apparently he did not have sufficient artillery in his divisions, nor enough tanks.
2. He attacked China too late. You can attack China late, but you need to have a good army and airforce to win.
China had lend-lease, but that only came a whole month after the war started, by which time in a normal game, Japan has pushed China to the Yellow River. At the same time though, the Axis were lend-leasing Japan plenty of planes, right up to the capitulation.



First of all it is a completely broken game mechanic when you can drop that many paratrooper and even more broken mechanic when you can train them up by swapping templates in a few weeks. Then, you can ship in troops into a port despite the opponent having 100% naval superiority.

In my opinion you simply should not do that in a fun and relaxed game. There should be a gentleman rule about para dropping three to five divisions max in a single operation and never ferry troops into port unless you have at least a decent naval presence in a sea zone first.

But that is just my personal opinion. Wink

There certainly were mistakes made in Japan and divisions composition could perhaps have been better, I don't know because I never saw them. But in my opinion division composition should NEVER be a major contributor to success or failure. A small benefit sure but nothing more than that.

There could easily be a rule about say general width of units and a ratio of 10-15 or 20-30 or larger units. Someone defending with extremely small width (especially when using Superior Firepower) are nearly impossible to break if you are good at micromanage your troops. In my opinion you could rule with no more than two small units for every full division in any army.

Also... I don't like that whole... you focus on only building airplanes and I build all the troops (or equipment for it)... so you can cheese how you distribute research and industry... it has nothing to do with history and everything to do with it just being a game you need to win at all cost. Sure small minors like Hungary can't build a large or a good air force and will need to rely on the bigger countries, but that is just realistic.

USA, France, England, Germany, Russia and Japan all have their internal political reasons for WHY the build everything and spend research on everything and don't even share all knowledge. If all you want to do is win... win... win... the game are not going to be fun for everyone and you should not play together... that is my opinion.

Someone like me I know how to game the system and I know how more efficient it is to pool resources like a robot, but that is not fun. I want the game to be decided on the battlefield using wits and maneuver of forces not cheesy production planning, template optimizations and abusing silliness in the game mechanic.

Anders
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:17:49 PM
 Generalfeldmarschall

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal2012 Good Cause Support MedalBanned in ActionAuthor of 7000th post

Joined: 3/9/2007
Posts: 13,057
Location: Auf das der Adler wieder fliegt
Jorgen_CAB wrote:
I mostly played EU4 on my laptop... that eventful was that game... Wink

I know almost all the cheesy play

We, the allies, weren't cheesing. If you want to experience real cheesy gameplay, participate in more lobby-games.

Jorgen_CAB wrote:
First of all it is a completely broken game mechanic when you can drop that many paratrooper and even more broken mechanic when you can train them up by swapping templates in a few weeks. Then, you can ship in troops into a port despite the opponent having 100% naval superiority.

IIRC, he didn't actually need to ship in troops, the paratrooper would have managed to win regardless, with Japan as weakly defended as it was.


Quote:
In my opinion you simply should not do that in a fun and relaxed game. There should be a gentleman rule about para dropping three to five divisions max in a single operation and never ferry troops into port unless you have at least a decent naval presence in a sea zone first.
Or you could try to not lose the entire Japanese army in China by having it encircled, leaving Japan defended by less divisions than it had ports. (The northernmost was still undefended. Oh, and guarding Tokyo is pointless, if you leave the port right next to it ungarrisoned...)

Quote:
But in my opinion division composition should NEVER be a major contributor to success or failure.
The critical thing was having artillery in the divisions, and actually having enough equipment and manpower to reinforce all of them. Which Japan apaprently failed at.
Quote:

There could easily be a rule about say general width of units and a ratio of 10-15 or 20-30 or larger units. Someone defending with extremely small width (especially when using Superior Firepower) are nearly impossible to break if you are good at micromanage your troops.
China went Mobile Warfare.

Quote:
Also... I don't like that whole... you focus on only building airplanes and I build all the troops
Sure, that's not a requirement for winning as the Axis, although it certainly helps.
Quote:

USA, France, England, Germany, Russia and Japan all have their internal political reasons for WHY the build everything and spend research on everything and don't even share all knowledge. If all you want to do is win... win... win... the game are not going to be fun for everyone and you should not play together... that is my opinion.
This is primarily a strategy game, not an RPG. And while I understand the sentiment, and agree it's boring when the game ends before 1941, that was primarily the Axis' fault for not playing well. China played quite well, as he fought to preserve "China". Blaming Japan's defeat on "cheesy gameplay" is ridiculous. In regular games, even those where Lend-Lease is unlimited, China never survives more than maybe two years. And then sometimes only because Japan delays taking the last VPs, in order to keep WT down.



"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Jorgen_CAB
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:46:36 PM
 Corporal

Joined: 12/28/2016
Posts: 33
Anders wrote:
This is primarily a strategy game, not an RPG. And while I understand the sentiment, and agree it's boring when the game ends before 1941, that was primarily the Axis' fault for not playing well. China played quite well, as he fought to preserve "China". Blaming Japan's defeat on "cheesy gameplay" is ridiculous. In regular games, even those where Lend-Lease is unlimited, China never survives more than maybe two years. And then sometimes only because Japan delays taking the last VPs, in order to keep WT down.



I actually never blamed China for Cheesy gameplay in the actual land war, some of it was because of Lend Lease which obviously favoured China a bit more than Japan. There needs to be strict rules such as Russia only able to send a select few planes at the start and then a few every week.

Obviously neither Japan or Germany should send Lend Lease to each other, at least before they are both at war against the Allies.

The game need to be balance in a way that Division templates are never going to be major factor, a minor one yes... but not a major one.

And as I said before, the Chinese player did a very good job in the war using good tactics... I don't want to belittle that.
Users browsing this topic
Guest


Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.