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Song of the Dead Take II Discussion Thread. Options · View
fasquardon
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 8:24:18 PM
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Ranger9000 wrote:
Well, Gaul/Aquitaine has been a player spot twice, so it wouldn't exactly be unusual. (At game start and later got picked up by another player.) But you would be kinda entering into a hornets nest.

As for customization, usually there's not terribly much as far as I know other then maybe a dynastic edit given the ruler designer is locked after game start, and 150 realm size means exactly what it means. On the top right of the screen you have a 'realm size' counter and that has to be under 150. You could either control 150 1 holding proviences, or 30 5 holdings ones, or anything in between. Its based on the cities/temples/castles not the actual number of counts. Though hordes work under a different policy (iirc, they have a max of 35 count holdings total but the rules weren't quite worked out for them this time around due to the starting area not including any hordes)

As for the game, we play on the previous patch. Its pretty easy to switch back, just right click on your CK2 game in steam, go to properties, go the the 'betas' tab, and then select the 2.7.2 patch and it will set itself back on its own.


Hm. So going for somewhere that was a horde would mean I'd have to be constantly doing mental mathematics to figure out what my "real" realmsize was?

And downgrading to 2.7.2 worked a treat. Though it's a shame. There's some really neat stuff in the new expansion (books are neat-o).

fasquardon

Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

Tyrannos of the Second Republic of Rome, High Speaker of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in And Rumors of War
Ranger9000
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 8:27:02 PM
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Hordes have a counter in the top right that I believe counts country territory (I think that is what the Realm Size counter does for Hordes) and it should be noted you /can/ go over the realm size if say, your a horde and your doing an invasion of a neighbour, but your expected to spit out vassal clans or the like until your back to the realm limit.

I do know that 35 proviences for a Horde is a fair bit, its about how much you need to for the 'Khan of Khans' event as the on map mongols for example.
fasquardon
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 8:56:53 PM
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Ranger9000 wrote:
I do know that 35 proviences for a Horde is a fair bit, its about how much you need to for the 'Khan of Khans' event as the on map mongols for example.


Do merchant republics have a lower province limit as well?

And are you guys still connecting directly, or are you going through the Paradox multiplayer servers?

fasquardon

Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

Tyrannos of the Second Republic of Rome, High Speaker of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in And Rumors of War
Ranger9000
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 9:43:48 PM
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There was the first time through, but this time around we've allowed Merchant Republics to have up to the 150 realm limit with the point that if they got to strong they'd get brought back down, though at the moment it seems like there hasn't been any real issues like that. Myself and KoM are both at the realm size limits and Italy is still the strongest empire kicking around.

And we use direct connection.
King of Men
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 10:07:50 PM
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Quote:
I miss-converted PDT to GMT. I should be able to play the full session.


Awesome!

fasquardon wrote:
Which serves to confuse more than it does enlighten. As I understand it, realm size in CK2 is based of buildings filling the slots in provinces. In which case, wouldn't a completely underdeveloped realm of size 150 be 150 provinces since each province counts as a minimum of 1 barony?


Yes, that's true. But anyway, as Ranger points out, there's a realm-size counter in the info bar in the top left, so it's fairly easy to keep track of.

Quote:
Also, will you be updating to the latest patch? Because I am not sure how to downgrade my copy of CK2 to the previous patch. (I should note that I was able to run the save with no problems whatsoever, despite it being from a previous patch.)

fasquardon


We had some good and sufficient reason for not updating to the latest patch; I forget what it was. However, it seems you were able to downgrade anyway.

Quote:
Oh? Radovia is a player state? I thought it looked awfully unnatural.


Well, Radek has played one session; we'll see if he shows tomorrow. Smile

Quote:
And are you guys still connecting directly, or are you going through the Paradox multiplayer servers?


We use the Steam joining feature, usually. Not sure if that's what you meant by "Paradox multiplayer servers"? I don't think Pdox runs separate servers anymore.

Quote:
Do merchant republics have a lower province limit as well?


No, it's 150 for everyone.

Quote:
I am curious how much customization is allowed for arriving players.


Basically cosmetics; also if the dynasty you're taking over is large, I'll create a custom dynasty so you don't get points for what the AI did. I'll note that other than starting characters we did no customisation in 769 either.

Quote:
Catholic Khazaria


Khazaria is nomadic, which interacts strangely with the realm-size limit; for this reason it's not playable, sorry:

Rules post wrote:
You may play as a custom merchant republic, a Muslim, a tribal, or a Pagan. (Feudal and Christian also allowed!)


I could be persuaded to change this after discussion, if there is a consensus that it's reasonably balanced with other options; but not the day before a session, without the skilled players being given a chance to point out how exploitable the Horde play is. Smile

Now that I look at the map, that Khazaria does squat over rather a large part of southern Russia. Perhaps Avaria, Greece, or Anatolia? (Anatolia is a former player slot.) Or what about the Abbasids, and give the Muslims a fighting chance?

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
LordSauronOfHertfordshire
Posted: Saturday, January 06, 2018 10:58:36 PM
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Truth be told if you were interested in playing CK2 and we end up converting next session, you are welcome to sub the Empire of Leon. I am travelling tomorrow, and so almost certainly won't be able to make much if any of the session as I would be reaching my desination somewhere around an hour and a half before the session ends at very best, and then have to get everything set back up going back to college. No need to agree, but you would get to start as a powerful empire doing quite well for itself and I wouldn't lose all my kingdom level titles because the AI always deletes them.

Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
Yami-Yagari
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 1:49:08 AM
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Think it best just to check the save prior, and at start pick what you want to play.
fasquardon
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 10:33:04 AM
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LordSauronOfHertfordshire wrote:
Truth be told if you were interested in playing CK2 and we end up converting next session, you are welcome to sub the Empire of Leon. I am travelling tomorrow, and so almost certainly won't be able to make much if any of the session as I would be reaching my desination somewhere around an hour and a half before the session ends at very best, and then have to get everything set back up going back to college. No need to agree, but you would get to start as a powerful empire doing quite well for itself and I wouldn't lose all my kingdom level titles because the AI always deletes them.


My experience is that this group tends to be rough on sub, so I am not sure I'd be better than the AI for you.

Also, I think the vote to convert was defeated?

King of Men wrote:
I could be persuaded to change this after discussion, if there is a consensus that it's reasonably balanced with other options; but not the day before a session, without the skilled players being given a chance to point out how exploitable the Horde play is. Smile


Oh, sure, say that just as I am getting excited about playing Khazars! *Walks off grumbling and kicks a sheep across the steppe to vent his frustration.*

King of Men wrote:
Now that I look at the map, that Khazaria does squat over rather a large part of southern Russia. Perhaps Avaria, Greece, or Anatolia? (Anatolia is a former player slot.) Or what about the Abbasids, and give the Muslims a fighting chance?


Avaria are quite a bit larger in terms of province count/realm size. You gotta remember that the province sizes get BIG out east. Big and holding-poor.

'Course people never do remember that, so maybe I am better off in gaul...

fasquardon

Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

Tyrannos of the Second Republic of Rome, High Speaker of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in And Rumors of War
Gollevainen
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 12:49:40 PM
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Hey another old dinosaur creeps in from the mist of history! Nice to have you aroun FasqSmile

FÜR DEN SCHUTZ DER ARBEITER UND BAUERN MACHT


Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
fasquardon
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 5:15:04 PM
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King of Men wrote:
Awesome!


Look like I was right the first time. Guess I can't join as a regular.

I can sub Leon though, if folks won't use a sub being there as a reason for war.

Gollevainen wrote:
Hey another old dinosaur creeps in from the mist of history! Nice to have you aroun FasqSmile


*ROAR!*

fasquardon

Propheteocrat of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in There Will be War - In the Balance

Tyrannos of the Second Republic of Rome, High Speaker of United Georgia and Emperor of the Seljuk Turks in And Rumors of War
jodokus
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 6:15:41 PM
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I can also possibly join you guys from EuIV phase. I wont be able to commit myself much during the summer months (may to November) but during the winter it should work.

LordSauronOfHertfordshire
Posted: Sunday, January 07, 2018 6:43:13 PM
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THere are no AI protections anyway.if they were going to attack having a player is probably a benefit.

Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
King of Men
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 7:28:00 AM
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So AARs. The rule in ancient times was that they must be posted before the next session. Due to a perhaps-misguided sense of compassion I have, in this game, allowed them to be posted during the session. However, I now see them being posted after the session. It's true that no lucky rewards were requested for the AARs I have in mind; however, they are presumably still intended to count for the achievement. I'm tightening this up before we go any further down the slippery slope; in the future please post the AAR before the next session ends if you want it to count for Tell My Tale.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
The Professor
Posted: Thursday, January 11, 2018 4:41:40 PM
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Big Grin

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
dragoon9105
Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 7:56:57 AM
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Right so we've run into a Dilemma.

The current Plan is to upgrade to Jade Dragon and toss away the Song of the Dead Mod next week, It'll simplify the hosting, and also allow us to use both the new DLC (Which is fantastic) and the Paradox converter with the Cradle of Civilization Patch (For Cultures/Religions/Trade Zones/Institutions). The issue of course lies in the cb's for jade dragon.

Its not a 1-1 switchover, we will lose duchy invasion on the transition over but Gain Force Vassalize (Works essentially the same way), Lose Kingdom Subjugation but gain Great Invasions (Which again work pretty much the same way). The Problem with Great Conquests is that they require 200 Realm size, so to keep the CB we either need to make a new mod (And thus having to deal with getting everyone on t he correct page) to fix the cb or just raise the realm size limit to 200.

Gollevainen
Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 3:04:57 PM
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Well I've been saying all the time that the realm size limit should gradually rise as the game goes along, that way we wouldn't be punished from building stuff and vassals making small gains so much. I say we raise the limit to 200

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Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
Vaniver
Posted: Friday, January 12, 2018 11:58:02 PM
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I am in favor of increasing the realm size limit, but also think someone shouldn't need to be at the literal limit in order to do kingdom conquests, which is what that would require. A mod to drop the limit to 100 seems much better.
Ranger9000
Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:19:52 AM
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I'm not against the 200 realm limit boost either. though I should not Grand Conquest required the attacker and the defender to both be over 200 size as it's meant for only empires using it on eachother. So even with the realm limit increase it's effectively unusable against most AI realms atm
LordSauronOfHertfordshire
Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 12:24:22 AM
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I concur with Ranger, raising the limit a bit is fine (especially since that would make the work I have to do much easier getting back under realmsize because AI) but it seems to me that even so it wouldn't do much.

Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
The Professor
Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 2:44:17 AM
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I'm okay with raising the limit to make Jade Dragon work.

Their game can only exist to be won.
Then so be it who else can see it done.
Yami-Yagari
Posted: Saturday, January 13, 2018 8:18:32 AM
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I should note to all (empire) players, force vassalization works on all government ranks, kingdoms included. So technically, it also replaces the kingdom sub cb.

As to my opinion, raising the limit seems like a good plan to encourage more pvp in, possibly, the final stretch of ck2. Whether to mod the great conquest cb or not, im generally indifferent. Mainly because i'll never get the realm size necessary to use it. 😝
Gollevainen
Posted: Sunday, January 14, 2018 5:26:17 PM
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So not to be anyway bitching about it, but could the GMs like give proper awnser if we are playing with the Jade Dragon and if not and if we are, what do we need to do in order it to run? I mean we had all the week but somehow I got the itch that we will be AGAIN making the decision right before the session starts...Rolleyes

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Irsh Faq wrote:
I've noted with Golle a trend of stirring up as much drama publicly as he can whenever he's up to something shady in the background. Presumably its a smokescreen strategy.
King of Men
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 5:42:02 AM
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Certainly, Golle. We are playing with Jade Dragon. You shouldn't have to do anything except un-enable the mod. Smile

So realm size! There's been a suggestion to increase the allowed realm size to 200, partly so we can use the Great Conquest CB, and partly for added player interaction. Anyone have Thoughts on this? If we do not increase the realm size, I will ask Dragoon to mod the CB to have a size limit of 140, instead.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
KhanXLT
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 6:59:12 AM
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Negative, keep it as is. I personally am a fan of a patchwork Europe , allowing people to centralize more in ck2 is a slippery slope.
King of Men
Posted: Monday, January 15, 2018 7:33:46 AM
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I think there are a couple of people who can claim the Crusader achievement who haven't done so. Please go check the achievements thread and claim it if you won a crusade and haven't got the achievement.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
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