Welcome Guest Search | Active Topics | Members | Log In

Song of the Dead Take II Discussion Thread. Options · View
King of Men
Posted: Saturday, February 03, 2018 10:32:17 PM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
Changed the leftover-mana rules thusly:

Rules post wrote:
After the auction, any unused points will be converted to mana, one for one, evenly distributed among the three categories. Apart from leftover mana humans will start with 100 in each category, overwriting what the converter gives them.


Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Sunday, February 04, 2018 4:44:55 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
Changed the minimum bid to 50. Clarified that bidding order will be random in each category.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Monday, February 05, 2018 4:28:00 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
So forts tend to end up a bit random. If you have one (or a few) in an awkward location and it would be way better one province over, or if it's out in the middle of nowhere and might actually be useful on your border, feel free to request that in the edit thread.

Read my blog.
Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
King of Men
Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2018 8:46:06 AM
 Legatus legionis

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 11/23/2007
Posts: 8,457
Location: Nowhere
New save and mod are up. Getting close to the end; the major remaining edit is the HRE, and then there is some minor stuff.

  • Every country now has Western units, but I didn't change the type of the existing ones, so the existing armies are still Asian Spearmen and whatnot. Shouldn't matter.
  • Please check that your national ideas are correct. It may be prudent to check your neighbours' ideas too, in case there's an error of the type "oops, I got 20% discipline instead of 5%". Smile

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
  • King of Men
    Posted: Monday, February 12, 2018 6:10:54 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Regarding the events that didn't fire, I think we reached the conclusion that this is an actual MP bug, and not an issue with the mod? Things we can try:

    a) Switch hosts
    b) Be vigilant for a lack of events, and rehost every so often
    c) Curse Paradox

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 6:13:59 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    I have closed the diplomatic archives again, because I had occasion to move a thread there; they will reopen at the end of HoI.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:55:02 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Ok, so limited war CB.
    There's no "X percent of my dev" clause, at least so far as the Wiki knows.
    But there is an "X percent of my army strength".
    So, we can make it so the game will only allow you to declare limited wars against people with, say, at least 90% of your army strength.
    Pro: It's enforced by the game.
    Con: It would actually be nice if you could kick someone when they were down.
    The other alternative is to leave the rule as it is now, namely at least 90% of your total dev.
    The game can't enforce that, you have to track it yourself.
    But it does allow you to limited-war DOW someone who just got a good kicking.
    Thoughts?

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:35:46 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Regarding Japan: Hadogei can pick a different Japanese power, and I'll move the idea set. I'll restore the Divine Wind excepting Kyushu. I'll listen to suggestions for what else ought to be done to make Japan great again, but do not promise anything.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Saturday, February 17, 2018 9:33:17 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    New mod uploaded. This adds a Limited War CB, which allows you to declare a limited war against Great Powers, against anyone with a bigger army FL than you, and against anyone with 90% of your army provided you are using most of your own force limit; it also disallows taking provinces and releasing vassals. Please note that these limitations are not the final word on Limited Wars; some common sense is still required. The intent of limited wars is to produce low-stakes 1-on-1 wars between reasonably equal powers. If you find that, by some quirk of the mechanics, you can declare a limited war on someone half your size and take all their money, please don't. Recall that the defender cannot call human allies in a limited war (they're allowed to join pro-forma to avoid the prestige hit, but should WP out as soon as they can do so without penalty), and that attacker allies are limited; I will update the rules to use FL instead of development as the metric.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 2:56:05 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Clarified the rules a bit; fight-the-war rule now reads:

  • Fight the dang war. If you join a war, you're expected to send troops to the front. Repeated bad faith may result in sanctions. This rule is intended to apply to player wars and player diplomacy; you don't have to fight for every AI minor that somehow has a chain of alliances with you. It is also permissible to publicly declare that you're not fighting a war which you are dragged into in some sense by accident, for example by being Defender of the Faith. The rule is intended to avoid wars that have been agreed upon somehow not happening; to tell a player "I will defend you against Foo" or "I will help you attack Bar", join the war, and then not fight, that is the thing to avoid.

    Overseas limit rule now reads:

  • You may deploy at most 25% (roughly speaking) of your army force limit overseas - that is, in other continents, as defined above for colonial wars; there is a separate 25% limit for each continent.

    Limited War rules now read:

  • It must be declared publicly beforehand; ideally on the forums, but at a minimum in game chat.
  • The war must have a single defender, who may not call allies (any allies automatically called are allowed to respond to avoid prestige loss, but may not fight).
  • The defender must be at peace at the time of the declaration, and may not be DOWed by anyone else until the war is over.
  • You may attack any player who is a Great Power, who has a higher army force limit than you, or who has at least 90% of your army while you are using 95% of your force limit; this is enforced by the CB. These limits are a best effort; if you believe that you should be able to limited war someone, but the CB isn't letting you, raise the issue between sessions and perhaps something can be worked out.
  • The intent of the limited war is to allow low-stakes 1-vs-1 fights between roughly equal powers. As the attacker, you may call allies only if, in your best judgement, they make the war roughly equal. The defender may appeal, and if the GMs think the attacker alliance is too powerful, some of them will be asked to stand down. AI nations as a general rule do not count, because AI gonna AI, but if you and your target both have force limits of 25, please do not call in any AIs with FL 100.
  • Nobody except the initial attackers and defender can fight in the war; this includes declaring separate wars, fighting rebels, and sending Condottieri. Subsidies are allowed.
  • The war must be actively prosecuted; if after three years neither side has 10% warscore, or if the war otherwise looks fake (for example, stuck at 11% warscore for a an extended period), it must be white-peaced. If this happens repeatedly the offending parties will be forbidden from declaring limited wars.
  • The peace treaty of a limited war may not cause provinces to change hands, except for return of cores. This is enforced by the CB.
  • The in-game enforcement of the limited war is a best effort; use common sense and try to abide by the spirit of the rule.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
  • King of Men
    Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 5:19:40 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    To make sure everyone is on the same page: Bretonnia is still technically a player slot, and will be AI-protected next week. It could in principle be resurrected by a player of sufficient skill; von Rundstedt's France in Great Game 2 comes to mind. It was an OPM at one point in EU4, and recovered to invade the Americas pretty effectively by HoI, though I did eventually throw them out.

    Bavaria, however, is going to be out of AI-protection this week, since Hoonter left halfway through the session on the 11th and wasn't present today.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 8:06:24 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    These are the remaining trade-node opening dates:

    Code:
    "african_great_lakes" = -1.1.1
    "amazonas_node" = 1524.1.1
    "australia" = 1594.1.1
    "basra" = 1544.1.1
    "cape_of_good_hope" = 1631.1.1
    "carribean_trade" = 1594.1.1
    "chesapeake_bay" = 1631.1.1
    "comorin_cape" = 1700.1.1
    "cuiaba" = 1744.1.1
    "doab" = 1700.1.1
    "ethiopia" = -1.1.1
    "ganges_delta" = 1700.1.1
    "goa" = 1700.1.1
    "hormuz" = 1544.1.1
    "indus" = 1700.1.1
    "james_bay" = 1744.1.1
    "kashmir" = 1700.1.1
    "katsina" = -1.1.1
    "kongo" = -1.1.1
    "laplata" = 1594.1.1
    "panama" = 1631.1.1
    "mexico" = 1631.1.1
    "mississippi_river" = 1744.1.1
    "ohio" = 1720.1.1
    "lima" = 1669.1.1
    "patagonia" = 1744.1.1
    "persia" = 1544.1.1
    "rio_grande" = 1744.1.1
    "siberia" = 1631.1.1
    "the_moluccas" = 1524.1.1
    "timbuktu" = -1.1.1
    "zambezi" = -1.1.1
    "zanzibar" = 1669.1.1


    I might make a map at some point.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    James Craig
    Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 1:05:37 PM
     1st Lieutenant


    Joined: 2/1/2013
    Posts: 167
    Location: Scotland
    This turned into the KoM update thread at some point huh?

    Vae Victis!
    KhanXLT
    Posted: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 5:47:32 PM
     General


    Joined: 1/22/2013
    Posts: 2,617
    Yea, all discussions migrated to discord.
    Yami-Yagari
    Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 5:38:53 PM
     Generalmajor


    Joined: 1/16/2014
    Posts: 1,146
    King of Men wrote:
    These are the remaining trade-node opening dates:

    Code:
    "african_great_lakes" = -1.1.1
    "amazonas_node" = 1524.1.1
    "australia" = 1594.1.1
    "basra" = 1544.1.1
    "cape_of_good_hope" = 1631.1.1
    "carribean_trade" = 1594.1.1
    "chesapeake_bay" = 1631.1.1
    "comorin_cape" = 1700.1.1
    "cuiaba" = 1744.1.1
    "doab" = 1700.1.1
    "ethiopia" = -1.1.1
    "ganges_delta" = 1700.1.1
    "goa" = 1700.1.1
    "hormuz" = 1544.1.1
    "indus" = 1700.1.1
    "james_bay" = 1744.1.1
    "kashmir" = 1700.1.1
    "katsina" = -1.1.1
    "kongo" = -1.1.1
    "laplata" = 1594.1.1
    "panama" = 1631.1.1
    "mexico" = 1631.1.1
    "mississippi_river" = 1744.1.1
    "ohio" = 1720.1.1
    "lima" = 1669.1.1
    "patagonia" = 1744.1.1
    "persia" = 1544.1.1
    "rio_grande" = 1744.1.1
    "siberia" = 1631.1.1
    "the_moluccas" = 1524.1.1
    "timbuktu" = -1.1.1
    "zambezi" = -1.1.1
    "zanzibar" = 1669.1.1


    I might make a map at some point.


    So checking the map, and both Sauron and Dragoon have been colonizing in the amazonas node. Will they be removed and reimbursed or what?

    EDIT: Ranger aswell.
    LordSauronOfHertfordshire
    Posted: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:32:48 PM
     Optio


    Joined: 5/22/2017
    Posts: 227
    Not colonizing so much as “aggressive native protection” which begs the question of what to be done about it. Since I didn’t notice the natives were in the wrong zone I’d be happy to release them as a vassal and either not worry about or subsidize them the pittance sum id get from them, with the diplo slot being the penalty for not paying attention, but it’d be a shame for my hard work to go to waste.

    Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
    KhanXLT
    Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 2:51:21 AM
     General


    Joined: 1/22/2013
    Posts: 2,617
    Hard work? Attacking native OPM?
    LordSauronOfHertfordshire
    Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 3:45:02 AM
     Optio


    Joined: 5/22/2017
    Posts: 227
    Do you know how hard it is to justify documents proving that you own some random piece of jungle? My spy networks had to do a lot of legal legwork and document forgery to justify that conflict, and my brave soldiers faced poison, ambush, and horrid diseases in the torrid jungle to conquer those natives and bring the light of Christ through the Holy Father in Rome to them.

    Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
    King of Men
    Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 5:13:56 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Colonies in off-limits provinces should be a self-correcting problem, considering what the modifier does. As for conquered natives, I think I'd release them and free them by edit. I don't see a need to reimburse anyone.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    Vaniver
    Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 10:00:12 AM
     Lieutenant Colonel


    Joined: 1/19/2014
    Posts: 662
    King of Men wrote:
    Colonies in off-limits provinces should be a self-correcting problem, considering what the modifier does. As for conquered natives, I think I'd release them and free them by edit. I don't see a need to reimburse anyone.
    The modifier is removed when someone begins colonizing the province (and also if a migratory tribe leaves or enters the province). :\ It looks like we needed to tie it to an on_colonized event trigger or something.
    LordSauronOfHertfordshire
    Posted: Thursday, February 22, 2018 6:45:59 PM
     Optio


    Joined: 5/22/2017
    Posts: 227
    That's fair enough. I'll conquer them later. Thank goodness I didn't start to core the province.

    Why conquer when diplomacy is just so much easier.
    King of Men
    Posted: Friday, February 23, 2018 6:18:06 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    Quote:
    The modifier is removed when someone begins colonizing the province


    Yes. But here the order is the opposite: Dragoon colonised the province, and then the modifier was added by my script. So I believe these particular colonies should not bother us for long. Smile

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
    King of Men
    Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 6:37:42 AM
     Legatus legionis

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/23/2007
    Posts: 8,457
    Location: Nowhere
    These are rules changes which have been suggested on Discord and which I am considering; feedback is welcome.

  • Stop AI protection for broken slots. This requires some judgement on when a slot is truly broken. Probably this judgement would be supplied by players nowhere near the slot in question, eg Asian players for Bretonnia.
  • Introduce a First Punch rule for new players. By this rule, new players may not be attacked until they have attacked you, for some number of sessions. Alliances would work as normal, and attacks on subject nations would count as attacks on the overlord.
  • Limit the number of MIL idea groups a player can take. Two main variants: Make Offensive/Defensive and Quality/Quantity mutually exclusive; or limit players to taking at most three of the four "mandatory" slots Defensive-Offensive-Quality-Quantity. The first option would call for some rebalancing of Aristocratic since Pluto is a good substitute for Defensive and Aristo... isn't. Either way, if this rule is introduced, players can have their MIL slots changed by edit.

    Rulings likely on Wednesday, to give time for people to make edit requests accordingly.

    Regarding Bretonnian colonies: They will be removed, some money refunded, and Bretonnia given a military idea set in place of Exploration, not that this is likely to matter.

    Regarding Ayutthaya's ideas: They are currently Bretonnian, because I was expecting djoes to play the slot. If Stiefellecker wants to continue playing, he can keep the Bretonnian build, or he can take 1000 mana and buy someone's spare idea set.

    Builds from broken slots (eg Bretonnia, Bavaria) will be available to new players in the future, at their auction price, but you have to buy the whole build - no a la carte.

    Read my blog.
    Norway Rome The Khanate Scotland Scotinavia Christendie the Serene Republic has always been at war with the Bretons False Empire Caliphate Persians Russians English Hungarians Oceanians Saracen Jackal! Death, death, death to the Frogs barbarians infidels necromancers vodka-drinking hegemonists Sassenach nomad menace Yellow Menace heathen Great Old One!
  • The Professor
    Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:27:37 PM
     General of the Army

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/17/2007
    Posts: 8,430
    Location: Time
    Quote:

    Stop AI protection for broken slots. This requires some judgement on when a slot is truly broken. Probably this judgement would be supplied by players nowhere near the slot in question, eg Asian players for Bretonnia.


    Sounds fair, though I note that it is strongly my preference for next time that we actually rethink how we play EU4 as basically a game all about eating AI minors until peoples borders brush up too close and then the pvp wars start; its completely ahistorical compared to conflicts like the 30 years wars where you had large coalitions of smaller states hopping in and out of the wars.

    Like most of the minor consolidation happened at the end of the Napeolonic Wars in two stages first after the final treaty ending Nappy's final bid after his defeat at Waterloo, and then again in 1870 with Italian and German unification finishing off most of the remaining states.

    Quote:

    Introduce a First Punch rule for new players. By this rule, new players may not be attacked until they have attacked you, for some number of sessions. Alliances would work as normal, and attacks on subject nations would count as attacks on the overlord.


    As someone guilty of this myself I think this would be a good rule, maybe 1 session grace would be good.



    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    The Professor
    Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 4:33:53 PM
     General of the Army

    One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

    Joined: 11/17/2007
    Posts: 8,430
    Location: Time
    Quote:

    Limit the number of MIL idea groups a player can take. Two main variants: Make Offensive/Defensive and Quality/Quantity mutually exclusive; or limit players to taking at most three of the four "mandatory" slots Defensive-Offensive-Quality-Quantity. The first option would call for some rebalancing of Aristocratic since Pluto is a good substitute for Defensive and Aristo... isn't. Either way, if this rule is introduced, players can have their MIL slots changed by edit.


    I'm not against this. Slightly leaning towards "Draw Four Discard One" but that's because I already picked up Quantity.

    Their game can only exist to be won.
    Then so be it who else can see it done.
    Users browsing this topic
    Guest


    Forum Jump
    You cannot post new topics in this forum.
    You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
    You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
    You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
    You cannot create polls in this forum.
    You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

    Powered by Yet Another Forum.net version 1.9.0 (NET v2.0) - 10/10/2006
    Copyright © 2003-2006 Yet Another Forum.net. All rights reserved.
    Copyright © 2005-2007 Daniel "Lord Ederon" Scibrany. All rights reserved.