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adam
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:23:44 PM
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cueball wrote:
alliance with Rep Spain. for example


we discussed this and came up with no comintern, and that is good I agree that would totally blow balls as germany. but even if allies can ally them I think USA should get an isolationist slide to simulate UK trying to control things in europe more, so less need to worry about action in europe. This makes UK have to think a little before opening up a major front with germany, and also may allow for the option of germany not DoWing them for strategical reasons. not this game of course, just saying for something to consider in future.

love!
cueball
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:29:10 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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It does get an isolationist slider move, if UK or Comintern allies Rep Spain. I did that. Also if Germany DOW's spain it goes the other way.

If I did it right, then it should be that a reaction alliance with UK does not shift sliders to the bad, but if UK allies Spain voluntarilly before the Axis DOW. But if Germany DOW's before Spain is in Allies it should shift Interventionist.



For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:34:22 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I agreed to the no Spain in Comintern thing specifically in regards to the short view WW2 game, as I did when setting up the events for Brazil/Argentina and the like, out of fairness for Germany. But if you are going to argue (and there is much merit in this) that Brazil in Comintern, should have negative consequences for SU in the long run in terms of the Cold War game, then it would make sense that SU should be compensated for not being allowed to ally Rep Spain in the early game, one of the few natural and historically possible alliance for the SU on the map.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
adam
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:40:11 PM
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Quote:
Rep Spain, one of the few natural and historically possible alliance for the SU on the map.


if germany offers the limited pact then this should be an option. although this would cause bitterness between UK and Soviets. maybe have soviets pay supply repairations to UK, or take some dissent? dunno just thinking. or give germany the option to cancel their non-aggression pact with su maybe for a historical pact? no one ever thinks outside of the ww2 timeline, so you're pretty much right, most of this is not needed. But I however would love to play in a game that gets into the late 50's regardless of what has happened in the game. :-(

USA giving supplies and oil to a SU that has allied brazil? pft. I don't think USA should even be able to trade with SU period, other than lend lease events. USSR has low amounts of Oil, and it starts showing late in the game unless USA gives them some of their 500 oil a day.

love!
cueball
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:47:32 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Well I am not 100% convinced that Germany can not win without taking Gibraltar. It seems people think that Germany must close down the med, and I am still not convinced this is an impossible situation for Axis. You could probably even survive just by closing down the front at Bilbao.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
adam
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:51:37 PM
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cueball wrote:
Well I am not 100% convinced that Germany can not win without taking Gibraltar. It seems people think that Germany must close down the med, and I am still not convinced this is an impossible situation for Axis. You could probably even survive just by closing down the front at Bilbao.


that wasn't where I had the disagreement with it. I have the disagreement with it's impossible for germany to even try to close down the med until 1941 if they want to offer SU the historic pact.

love!
cueball
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 4:55:30 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Then leave it. Is all I am saying. The front can be closed off at Bilbao.

The main problem, really I think with having the med open is that it makes the Axis situation in terms of controlling the actual game that much more difficult, because Russia needs to be played accurately.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
hiensen
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:27:51 PM
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In my ruleset there are 2 rules :

1-uk cannot ally any country (that isn't attacked by axis) until 1943-1944
2-if axis ally any south american country(open action against Monroe doctrine) , USA can join the Allies at anytime

I hope it explain one point of view about allied abilities to ally countries.
Nicophorus
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 5:46:48 PM
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I like the idea of more diplomatic flow around the globe. I think the issue is there is way too much money floating around.
cueball
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 6:23:08 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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That is possibly one thing that could be looked into.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Nicophorus
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 8:18:45 PM
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Its also unfortunate that most people in this community feel the need to mico analyze all the events, forumlas, calculations,etc. before each and every game.

Why cant we all once start a game with a new version of EIR (or whatever) that none of us have gotten to "preview" and just play the game useing common sense?

I get so tired of hearing "well in my 12th test game I discovered I can squeze out 200 fighters instead of my usual 150 , so you better follow this build scheme or you are a n00b."

exageration, but you get my point.

I really enjoyed playing the USSR in the last game, and comming across things like the kurdish event chain where I did not know exactly what would happen (as I did not pour over the event and do a half dozen playtests to see what would happen..) as I made my choices.

I dont even bother taking saves anymore between games. If someone else wants to beat me by picking apart the game mechanics to the last edited sentence, so be it. I feel playtesting between saves is an inch from cheating anyways, kinda like conducting less then 100% trades with the AI.
hiensen
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:27:28 PM
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they do because this game drain a lot of time, even more than a WOW, and if players doesn't try to have the better setup possible, they mostly get smatched by those that take care of it.It's as in life, you're free to not do,buy,sell something but other person will do at your place and get the advantages you're missing.I know it's bad but it's life.
Btw recently for the first time in my hoi playing I runned in sp my country with a saved to know what I will have at war.I guess that many ppl did it before me One Tooth Grin it's really nice thing since we are not Einstein calculators.Or in other game I runned it to know the weather Angel Grin
I'm not used to but since my opponents are probaly doing this thing since game has started why not me?I don't want to be the last idiot using the most known trick ! Crazy
But maybe I am LOL Annonym
adam
Posted: Friday, February 08, 2008 11:32:28 PM
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Quote:
I dont even bother taking saves anymore between games. If someone else wants to beat me by picking apart the game mechanics to the last edited sentence, so be it. I feel playtesting between saves is an inch from cheating anyways, kinda like conducting less then 100% trades with the AI.


testing your build schemes and making sure you have enough time and IC to produce things is no where near cheating....do your country leaders "just wing it"? no they come up with huge 2000 page ledgers of what will be done...now runinng the save and engaging the enemy in the sea, ground, or air is an inch away from cheating. running the weather isn't too great and nice either but I think it's random no matter what, or is it all preset.

love!
cueball
Posted: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:08:39 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I really don't have any problem with people testing their build scheme in the long 36. I don't think its really cheating, its a fun way to look at new options, and experiement. Testing at war is a bit of sneaky way to get a view of what the enemy has deployed generally, but also not that helpful because the ai is just so bad, and you can fool yourself about the actual capabilities of the enemy.

As for looking at chat logs, this is cheating, but it can also be a mixed blessing for the cheater since you can always send out disinformation this way. I had a player recently tell me that he looked at the chat log then made an important decision based on that. However, having thought about the situation, I changed my mind between sessions, and so the cheater made mistakes based on something I had decided against doing, after the session where I discussed it.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2008 9:26:18 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Ok, so I see two options here:

1) I can edit out all the unnatural alliances (Brazil>>>USSR, Chile>>>UK etc.), and we can go with Hiensen's rules for the purposes of this game. In this case I propose that both UK and USSR be compensated fininacially.

2) We can leave the save as it is and see how it goes, but apply Hiensen's rule for the rest of the game.

It would be good to have a straw vote, soon so we can resolve this before Wednesday game start.




For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
hiensen
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2008 9:45:21 PM
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Axis sphère of influence must be considered as the whole countries that are in german neighbours and give to allies the chance to open an entire front without a shot.
Here are the examples from west to east : portugal,spain,belgium,netherlands,vichy,norway,sweden,finland,baltic states,yougoslavia,romania,bulgaria,greece,turkey.
If those countries aren't attacked/allied by Axis the allies should not be applied to ally them as it's not historical and not fair.
Predator
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:44:14 PM
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I choose 2 : P
gunships
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:06:58 PM
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Hi all ...

Well from my way of thinking , We are playing a history game .. That should be played that way up till 1939 Daniz .For a = game for all sides . So Nat spain should win . Japan should be still fighting in china . Allies only have the country they are allied to . And Germany is ready to attack ....

After that country and player can do , what the game alouds them to do . But south american country should not be alot to allies up , as this would have not been alound by USA leaders at the time for axis or allies or commies .

As the game alouds you to there needed to be a way to = up to way the real world would have acted at the time .

If any South american country is allied then USA should move its war date back 6 month or forward 6 months .
EG allies get ................ USA back 6 month as war for them is going well ...as country would not allie up to a country that is looseing the war ha ...and Commie allies up again 6 months back for USA joining the allies or help Russia wioth supply etc .
And if axis allied up country around USA then we all know that USA would have joined up alot sooner or even started getting ready for war alot sooner .< 6 month sooner >

In the game setup , witch is a great Mod , The axis country should still only win about 3 out of 10 games and only really win if allied players are not that good .So the game does back allied over axis already .in Vanilla and MOd game so far .

And think about this would japan now sit around a watch allies allie up all the country around them .I think not .So japan with attack, witch then will make that minor allie up to UK witch will make to game go down hill fast . But we should think about the time line we are playing in and what leader would have really done at the time .

SO from MY thinking , but i am new to your group so take it anyway you like ... easyest way .For each county not done allied or wared in history , should make USA war enter 6 month back or forward .... And you have to think about this Germany does not want USA in the war sooner .. So why attack , country that are nothing really .And Japan would be tell germany Not to attack as it not ready ...

Fix it 1 editor minor out , but Uk payed alot of money to get them so have to = that up for him .
2 USA war enter now moved back in time june 1942 now if i am right and russia allie up spain , should make it a 1943 jan war enter LOL ..
3 Play as it is now , Japan will not sit around a watch all the country fall to axis or allies . And that is history .

I vote for rule 2 for next game ..... but rules 1 as UK dont know . that way , make rule 2 work in this game after that :}

Dennis <gunships> sorry about my spelling etc . i am rich but dont do well at school :}

cueball
Posted: Monday, February 11, 2008 11:18:21 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Good points.

And, the idea behind having US war entry connected to the general strategic situation, is one I adopted from the Aussie rules. The trick is I am trying to make this work through sliders, so in this case, if Brazil stays in Comintern USA will get a slider shift toward isollationism. This should in fact, make USA war entry at least 6 months delayed, possibly more.

But I don't feel I need Brazil, so I have no problem editing it out of the Comintern. But i have not made these adjustments for each and every single country on the map. Though I would like to in the future. So, there is a punishement for Axis enemies already in place for the situation as it stands now.

The main thing we need is a decision on where we go from here, IMO, and I think the two solutions I offered are fair for the game going forward. And unless there is another one offered, I think we should pick one or the other before game start.



For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
adam
Posted: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 9:03:56 PM
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Quote:
1) I can edit out all the unnatural alliances (Brazil>>>USSR, Chile>>>UK etc.), and we can go with Hiensen's rules for the purposes of this game. In this case I propose that both UK and USSR be compensated fininacially.

2) We can leave the save as it is and see how it goes, but apply Hiensen's rule for the rest of the game.


I don't see where Venezuela, Chile, and Saudi Arabia are going to be big game breakers for axis. Also I think since this time brazil alliance was allowed by rules it should also stand, since USA has suffered in isolation and should have been agreed upon by all players at startup, not midgame. My allies are different since the Allies rules are so bendable with rules and I don't really care TBH although I would prefer keeping my influed nations, because of more than just cost. It could have been spent elsewhere a lot sooner. But if axis has a huge problem with it then I say we edit it out to solve problems as the only country I really wanted was saudi arabia, as a deterrent to attack turkey =], the others are just german cannon fodder.

love!
hiensen
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 9:45:25 AM
 Generalleutnant

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Yeah I have a really big problem with chile in allies since with his Carrier task force,his navs and his mechs I will die in a few.
cueball
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:43:02 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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The consensus seems to be that we are going to leave the save as it is and then updated the rules, to prevent any more alliances.

I have updated the rules accordingly, and I will edit only the edits discussed in the Edits thread.


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
adam
Posted: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 4:02:05 PM
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hiensen wrote:
Yeah I have a really big problem with chile in allies since with his Carrier task force,his navs and his mechs I will die in a few.


bah Chile has almost as much daily MP as australiaAussie , and the same amount of reserve MPRolleyes . you're talking about 18-20 divisions within a few years of them joiningW00t . they also have a battleship :-) level II modelSergeant

love!
adam
Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:03:36 AM
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cueball has asked me to appeal to the axis about pau, the province in southern france. This province is supposed to go to vichy when the event fires, and I have requested that it be edited back to vichy control. I think this is not so much to ask since cueball is editing in the entire french indo-china back to japan, as well as removing some of their dissent....If you want to go through a vichy province I think they should have to be DoWed or allied, not left to france's control by germany bypassing how the vichy event works and taking every province in france EXCEPT for pau....leaving this as it is, is an exploit IMO..every province in france was taken but pau.

love!
cueball
Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2008 12:13:02 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Just to clarify, I am editing in Vichy because it is the right thing to do. I suppose I should just have taken out the Madagascar option from the event, but then it never occurred to me that anyone would ever use it. My bad. I just assumed everyone knew it was a 1% chance of success, and you blew the whole deal if you asked.

Therefore I am editing it, and putting French Indochina as Japanese territory.

If you guys can work something out around Pau, I will edit, yes. So long as there is agreement.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
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