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cueball
Posted: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:43:44 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Please post any issues that were raised in game for discussion.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Monday, February 04, 2008 9:46:02 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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We had some sharp discussion about the use of single submarines to break -101 shore bombardment modifiers.

In my view, both things should not really be happening. Can we come to some kind of compromise. Say a voluntary limit on the shore bombardment, and an agreement not to use single subs to break shore bombardments?

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
adam
Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:34:36 PM
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cueball wrote:
We had some sharp discussion about the use of single submarines to break -101 shore bombardment modifiers.

In my view, both things should not really be happening. Can we come to some kind of compromise. Say a voluntary limit on the shore bombardment, and an agreement not to use single subs to break shore bombardments?


pred and I discussed this at length. and came up with nothing. and you pls pls pls define cueball to me how to defeat 12 infantry divisions with armored cars without massive shore bombardments. I would love to hear it considering 6 marines with a 5 amphib max were owned down to 0 org and 60-70 str in I think 2 hours.

the -101 shore bombardment modifiers can be broken by simply maintaining ftrs in the area and a decent group of ships. if they would have kept ftrs at guam and not moved them around like crazy to try and catch me everywhere I went. Guam would never have feel. It's very hard to maintain -101 shore bombardments. Defense was simple and is as follows: Send the canadian fleets out and allied aircraft to bomb. when canadian fleets are deorged retreat them, continuing bombing. it's up to the invading player if they want to continue with the losses they will undoubtedly be getting from bombers. but yes -101 may be a bit much...but it has to be capped very very high to be able to win a battle against 12 infantry with armored car. this is not even a realistic garrison, so why should I do realistic bombardments, which IMO could be semi achieved with enough ships. not sending single subs to stop 120 ships from bombarding. 3-6 divisions is well plenty enough to defend islands. Japs have no chance with low capped shore bombards as USA can just build so damn much. But in the same instance germany stands 0 chance with high bombarding, but allies cannot achieve this until late in the game which is closer to realistic, and germans should be building at least a few ships, and aircraft to help defend this. if we cap shore bombardments, then we must cap shore defenses also, because of game mechanics attacking 12 infantry with 90 some odd organization is not possible to win, without months and months of bombing campaigns, and many many invasion attempts. and my BB fleet combined with just my CTF fleet reaches -101 shore bombard, so it's really hard to judge shit like that and get the correct amounts so you attack at the best quality.

love!
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 10:13:44 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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The issue is that Japan is saying that the ships below the point where HMS Galathea is sunk by aircraft where destroyed by a retreat bug. That is what I can make of the issue, since I was not there. Perhaps people could explain precisely what happened so that we can decide what to do, and if any edits are needed.

So perhaps people could explain precisely what happened.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Geofactor
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 3:06:40 AM
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dunno really....i just know my fleet arrived late and the battle started over again i think......have you checked the game log to see exactly when the battle started and when my fleet arrived?......or do i have to do it from my save?......i looked at my game log......there seemed to be a one hour difference from the time the first battle ended and the second one started......battle ended 2300 and started at 0000 the next day......if that helps

""The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.".....Thomas Jefferson"
anonymous....we are legion...we dont forgive....we dont forget....expect us...
Mighty G
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:24:59 AM
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I would like Edzako to tell us what he thinks would be fair to do. We got a good group here and there have been several edits to fix problems and i think in all cases thus far the person needing the edit got what they wanted.

From my point of View this is what i saw.

Big stack of Jap ships got mauled and by mauled i mean 80-90pc of the capital ships engaged were ravaged from 60-80pc damages, there were quite a few im sure the bombers would get. Enter More Japanese Ships all BB's didnt pay close attention to what they were as i was to busy managing the air force to ensure bombers would still break throught he Japanese Airnet to get at the Fleet.

I never saw a disengagement from the battle until after another of Geo's fleet had arived at the battle, and to be honest i was to busy with my air fleet to bother geo to manhandle his navy as well as mine. The last thing i saw was Jap BB's at about 25-30pc strength fighting an uphill battle with most of the Allied ships that were at the battle they were all in range CV CVL HC's the lot.

Im sure some ships were sunk, and im sure some will sink befre retreating. The question is for damage done to Allied Ships how do we edit back to Japan so there is still a chance for allies to finish the job. This was probably the single deciding battle for the Pacific, sure the Entire Jap fleet was probably not or will not be entirely sunk, but it is entirely banged up some of those ships were no longer fit for 3rd world nations as scrap metal.

So what needs to be edited and how do we do? Afterall if the ships have retreated and been re-engaged then this is a bug and must be corrected. Im just concerned allies wont get to pursue the fleet or continue to mop it up in this engagement. Both Geo and i were laughing like madmen and typing furiously thats how decisive this battle was IMHO. What i saw was a decimated Japanese CV fleet and a practically dead Japanese BB Fleet. Smaller ships were also dropping fast.

I cannot ask or tell you what japan should and shouldnt loose, the ledgeer clearly speaks on how the the battle in the next sea province ends. But ships reengaging in retreat is deffinantly a bug.

Lets see what Ed's Rapier is.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Mighty G
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:30:20 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I too only Saw USA enter the engagement 1 hour after the battle started it was Geos fleet entering battle i was allready clucking from the hurt the Pacfic UK Fleet and Canadian CV's were dishing out and that the weather was clear and cloudless. I was allready confident of British success at sea so with Geos motion to battle when i went it was just a bonus. The delayed engagement also worked in our favour as it bought about 15 of our ships that were not in range into range.

I never saw a disengagement from the battle, only after the capitals were dead. I also never saw a reingagement. I only noted when the retreat occured that there was only 1? capital in that fleet.

We really need Ed to post how we should fix it because im almost certain most of those ships even if in retreat will never make it home to port, and im darn sure geo was convinced too the way he was WOOT!'ing to me during the engagement Thumbs Up .


If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Mighty G
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:37:37 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I will also add that in that screen shot 4 BB's were sunk by Aircraft and not Ships (which is odd for a bugged naval engagement). So if they were sunk in retreat?

And that USA had a mid sized CVL DD fleet in positioned in the next sea zone.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

cueball
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 11:51:29 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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To be accurate only one BB and 2 DD's are sunk by aircraft after the point where Ed says he got the bug, the rest were sunk by naval engagement.

Well, according to Allies, anyway, they say that the bug would not likely have had an impact on the outcome of the battle overall. That said, I would like Axis to confirm this, in particular Ed, before we get into the next session.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Mighty G
Posted: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 12:35:03 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Must have been looking at it cross eyed.
1BB 1CL and 2DD

Lets see what Ed wants to do.


If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Edzako
Posted: Thursday, May 01, 2008 10:45:41 AM
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Hi everyone. First of all I will tell how this situation looked from Japanese side, it wasn't all that complicated afterall, I decided to engage British CV fleet lurking around northen Sahalin port, send my SAG, after short while I noticed my SAG is taking some damage and I actually lost some ships, I decided to finish off CVL what was badly damaged and retreat, I saw "lost combat" log and gray retreat line, decided to put up rest of my planes to protect ships from bombers and then went to SE Asia to move additional troops to hot zone.
I didn't checked battle log for a while because I thought that combat log shows air battles, later when I checked it I found that my ships are fighting again, earlier than expected and in the same sea zone ! Then I paused game and explained my frustration about this issue.
Also your arguments that these ships would be dead anyway due to naval bombardment isn't valid. You haven't won air superiority, at least you hadn't when I left the game.
Also I have some of my ships with mission naval bomb. and they haven't noticed any CVL/DD fleet in sea zone I was going to retreat, there are one big sub stack in east of sea zone I retreated I am aware of but no CVL/DD fleet, maybe Cue can clarify this.
What is more about ships sunk after they re-engaged by aircraft you must take in account that they could have been crippled by USA fleet and only then sunk.
To sum up that bug definitely had impact on outcome of battle.



Stand upright, speak thy thoughts, declare The truth thou hast, that all may share; Be bold, proclaim it everywhere: They only live who dare.
Mighty G
Posted: Thursday, May 01, 2008 10:55:05 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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OK, but how do you prpose we correct this?

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Ederon
Posted: Thursday, May 01, 2008 11:02:37 AM
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Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
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This is annoying issue we had in Monday Game VIII too. The problem is that your retreating fleet(s) are recalled to battle once new enemy fleet arrives and you're battling not only that newly arriving fleet, but also that one you originally retreated from. I think it's fine if new fleet engages retreating one. Buggy is that all fleets in a sea zone are reengaging regardless of whether they were combatants in earlier battle(s) in that very sea zone before with same enemy fleet.

Only way how to avoid this is to not use this tactics at all (that is new fleets arriving in a sea zone someone is fleeing from).
cueball
Posted: Thursday, May 01, 2008 6:13:58 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I propose that we recreate all of the ships that were not destroyed by aircraft after the HMS Galathea was sunk, and give them 25% damage and 50 % org (out of a possible 88 ), and then attach them to the retreating fleet, where they may or may not get sunk either by aircraft or by other Allied ships when they reach there retreat Sea Zone.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Mighty G
Posted: Friday, May 02, 2008 8:18:42 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Sounds reasonable to me, although with 50pc org id say give them 50 pc damage those ships were seriously fucked up.

But id still like to know ED's thoughts on how to Fix this issue, afterall he has been kind enough to take over the abandoned power for us.




ALSO we playing tomorrow night or Sunday?

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Edzako
Posted: Friday, May 02, 2008 9:44:05 AM
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I leave this in Cue hands after all he is our "judge", current Cue proposal seems reasonable.

Stand upright, speak thy thoughts, declare The truth thou hast, that all may share; Be bold, proclaim it everywhere: They only live who dare.
cueball
Posted: Friday, May 02, 2008 12:45:20 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Ok. So, here is what I did. I put the sunk ships into the retreating fleet. Instead of giving the ships Strength and Org by a pre-determined value, I randomized it by using the values for the ships that had not been sunk but were still in the retreating fleet., taking the first set of values, and adding it to the first ship I recreated, then taking the second set of values from the next ship in line and gave those values to next ship I recreated, and so on. It's a hodge-podge. Some are more damaged than others and some are close to pristine.

I also recreated the British and Canadian ships that were sunk. I am not sure they are with the right battlefleets but they are back in the Allied OBB.

That is the best I can do I think.

Here is a copy of the renewed save: EIR 2 Day 18 Start


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Mighty G
Posted: Friday, May 02, 2008 1:37:19 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Joined: 12/3/2007
Posts: 2,218
Location: Land of the Bunyip
NP ill, see use sunday.

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

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