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cueball
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:58:52 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Aircraft:

Fix: Additional Naval attack does not get added to newly created units. Change bonus system.

Interceptors upgrade slightly too fast. Increase upgrade time/cost for these units.

Either increase Interceptor research costs or delay techs for another year 37,39, 41 etc. as opposed to 36, 38,40.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Thursday, October 23, 2008 7:00:20 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Held over:
cueball wrote:


Also, I think we will be instituting the rule that makes players build air bases and naval bases in the province where they are to be deployed. In order to enforce this rule, TC load for bases sitting in queue will be set to 10,000 as opposed to 100. However, the cost for airbases will be increased to 6 but there build time reduced to 30.

Air defence for level 1 NAV's will likely be decreased.

Set up the Doomsday.txt file so that the correct names show for late model interceptors.

Set up the "models" graphics so the type of aircraft listed is consistent with picture shown for all countries which usually have players.

Set up AI's to take into account new tech formulation.


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
SilverBolt
Posted: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:09:44 PM
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i make arty 38 and put on infantry 39. Infantry 39 gets a -2 speed penalty.
I upgrade to arty 40 which in stats from brigade sections shows -1 speed penalty.
so 39 infantry sohuld have a -1 speed penalty but it still has -2.
cueball
Posted: Sunday, November 02, 2008 8:36:57 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Interesting.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
TheWretchedMass
Posted: Monday, December 22, 2008 12:21:20 AM
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France:

France is impossible to penetrate, you get a defensive line of Ghent-Brussels-Reims:

Ghent: stick 30 units there and with -20 shore bombardment -20 river crossing and only 2 sides you can only attack with 48 units, and thats easily stopped.

Brussels: Only one side to attack with stick 20-27 units there maximum attack is 28 from 1 side very easy to stop

Namur: touches two provinces one a river crossing one a non river crossing maximum attack is 48 units, 40-45 untis should stop it easy.

Reims: Fairly easy to hold with 30-35 divisions, add level 5 forts and you can free up 10-15 divisions.

Mag line 27 units should do

province above nice: 30 should do it easy + mountians.

Nice: 15 units with level 5 forts and -20 for shore bombardment with mountians

Total units: 30+25+40+30+27+30+15= 202. In a game where Im UK I have 290 units, and france didnt build enough right as he has 140 MP reserve that could have been converted to another 10 units. Thats another 100 units I can use as reserves to rape italy. Hiensen is Germans and hasnt been able to do shit and I will easily continue to stop him.

The main problem is theres a lack of room, the command limit means that even if Germany had 1000 divisions could still be easily held off so we've certainly reached the theoretical maximum.

Pacific theatre.

The pacific just sucks, CVs are absolutely worthless, my entire pacific fleet 1 SAG and 1 CTF: 7 CVs, 2 CVLs, 8 BBs were damaged and 1 CV sunk in 2 hrs by 8 Japanese Navs. My 7 Tactical bombers, damaged 3 Japanese CVs that including 8 CVs.

IMO if navs or taqs attack a CV fleet of that size it should be like attacking interceptors, the guy should want to immediate pull those away, I think you should lower the naval attack of these units as well as increase the Air attack values of the CVs to make it a bad idea for navs or taqs to attack CVs.

Japan should be as easy as country to play as USA or UK. I want CVs to be a feared units, I tried to launch a port strike on 4 nearly sunk CVs with no org and it did absolutely nothing which is so lame. A port strike should be a vicious event that damn sinks every ship in port. Look at how devastating port strikes were at pearl harbor and midway. Increase CVs naval attack values as well BBs should be coral reefs against them not have nearly as much success as they did in our game, increase values of CVLs as well they should have a much higher naval attack value, just look at how valuable they were in real life.
cueball
Posted: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:12:07 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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France:

I am interested in how the France thing shapes up. That said, its possible that I will ask Durruti if I can use the map they made for MEM, which increases the number of provinces in the Benalux. Durruti's France:



One thing though, Ghent is always impossible to assault. It is that way in almost all games of HOI I have played.

And again, there have been no changes to the command limits. That has not changed from vanilla. What is happening is that people are noticing them more because combat takes longer.

The length of battles increases the effect of the existing command limit on the battle as it progresses. In vanilla battles are short, and so people attack in big blobs and don't really pay attention to the command limit. Rather than attacking in mass, against an entrenched position, a player should never attack over the command limit, and rotate troops into the attack, taking troops that are at zero org our of the battle, and then feeding new ones in, later after they have recovered a bit, and if the battle goes long, the troops rotated out of the battle can be reintroduced.

The blob is not effective here. It is in fact bad because it increases attrition on the attacking forces. That is intentional. The battles themselves must be played.

Naval Warfare:

TheWretchedMass wrote:
Pacific theatre.

The pacific just sucks, CVs are absolutely worthless, my entire pacific fleet 1 SAG and 1 CTF: 7 CVs, 2 CVLs, 8 BBs were damaged and 1 CV sunk in 2 hrs by 8 Japanese Navs. My 7 Tactical bombers, damaged 3 Japanese CVs that including 8 CVs.

IMO if navs or taqs attack a CV fleet of that size it should be like attacking interceptors, the guy should want to immediate pull those away, I think you should lower the naval attack of these units as well as increase the Air attack values of the CVs to make it a bad idea for navs or taqs to attack CVs.

Japan should be as easy as country to play as USA or UK. I want CVs to be a feared units, I tried to launch a port strike on 4 nearly sunk CVs with no org and it did absolutely nothing which is so lame. A port strike should be a vicious event that damn sinks every ship in port. Look at how devastating port strikes were at pearl harbor and midway. Increase CVs naval attack values as well BBs should be coral reefs against them not have nearly as much success as they did in our game, increase values of CVLs as well they should have a much higher naval attack value, just look at how valuable they were in real life.


Japan should not be as easy to play as USA or UK. Japan should play like Japan. I actually don't find these casualty rates astonishing or unrealistic at all. Also, they are not substantially different than vanilla. Have you played the Pacific theater in MP before?

You seem to be arguing against yourself, on the one hand you don't want ships to be sunk at sea by entire wings of patrolling land based aircraft, but then want them blown to smithereans while in port, by much smaller squadrons flying operations from carrier flight decks.

The idea that a CV was sunk in 2 hours by land based naval bombers is not at all a-historical. The Rodney and the Prince of Wales were sunk in about that amount of time of the coast of Singapore, by Japanese naval bombers. Had the British bothered to send a CV or two, I doubt they would have fared much better. What was needed was land based air cover, which the British did not bother to provide for their surface navy operating in the South China Sea. After that point, the British Navy never ventured forth into contested coastal waters without land based aircover.

USS Franklin almost went down in 1945 after being hit by two bombs dropped by a single Japanese land based naval bomber.

The actual long lasting damage caused by the strike at Pearl Harbour was not as serious as it is often made out to be. For example, of the 5 BB's "sunk" at Pearl Harbour, only 2 never saw action again (Arizona and Oaklahoma), of the others 2 were floated and saw service within a year, and only the West Virginia spent a substantial amount of time in dry dock, re-entering the war at the battle of Leyette Gulf in 1944, not only repaired but entirely overhauled -- she probably could have re-entered service earlier. And that was a situation where the attackers achieved total suprise, and managed to destroy all of the land based air defence force while it was still on the ground.


Quote:
IMO if navs or taqs attack a CV fleet of that size it should be like attacking interceptors, the guy should want to immediate pull those away, I think you should lower the naval attack of these units as well as increase the Air attack values of the CVs to make it a bad idea for navs or taqs to attack CVs.


Naval bombers and their escorts represent entire wings of 100's of aircraft, operating with all the advantages of a proper air field. Even the largest carriers, had mixed groups of bomber, fighter/bomber, and fighter squadrons, which had to be launched in waves. At any one time, a CV was lucky to have 30 to 50 aircraft in the air. So, sure, if one land based Naval bomber wing, or Tactical wing attacked a group of 6 CV's, the CV's would do well, but if an Admiral were so foolish as to operate in close to land, knowing that there were plenty of enemy aircraft in range, and his fleet were discovered and attacked by 1000 enemy planes, the results would indeed be devestating.

Solution: Do what was historically done! Be careful with your naval resources, and make sure you have air superiority before sending your fleets out into contested sea zones near land. That was real life.

That said, I am going to modify this aspect of the game somewhat, but not to make CV's invinsible when attacked by mass land based air. What we have already done is to make land based air much less effective, by limiting its range.

Here is a good resource for you: Imperial Japanese Navy Page

There is no doubt in my mind that there are deficiencies in the naval combat system. The primary one is that fleet air defence is not cumulative. There is no "Ring of Steal" around the individual capital ships. In other words all attacking aircraft focus on one ship, and the combined air defences of accompanying destroyers and other escorts does not contribute to the defence of the ship that is under attack. This is not modifiable, and as a result, once located, land based air will repeatedly attack the same target, more or less, until sunk.

The other problem is the super-powers of CVL's that instantly teleport BB fleets to close range with CV's. This is why CVL's were banned in MEM. Something I think might be a good idea here. I am also toying with the idea of reducing ship visibility even more to make naval engagements less frequent, but about as devastating as they are. That makes more sense to me than making CV's over-powered.

Surface fleets would be harder to detect, and CV's would have a definite advantage over traditional Man of Wars.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Monday, December 22, 2008 5:44:19 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Sinking of the Prince of Wales and the Repulse

USS Franklin after being attacked by one Japanese land based Naval Bomber


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
durruti
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:47:11 PM
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Having made an install of east is red QPAR i just want to say i think it looks very neat.Thumbs Up Particularly the NAV docs. I cant get Goering's delay -36 to work though. Crashes on load.

Also, i see the germans have 0.80 GDE. Does that change with events or techs ? I'm so memed i forget how it worked in vanilla.
cueball
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:51:47 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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GD crashes on load? I will have to check that.

I changed GDE effectiveness by using a global modifier in the "misc.txt" file that changes the effective GDE. Right now GDE is effectively about .88 or point .89.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
durruti
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 1:59:51 PM
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egh works now...

cueball
Posted: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:07:11 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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The new patch is in my signature, now.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
durruti
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:00:50 AM
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could anyone of you guys post a save of an EIR game? I'd like to get a picture of how a it looks in mp.

Durr
cueball
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:14:33 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I only have QPAR games, ATM, without your map changes so you would have to go back to the earlier version. I'll post one tomorrow.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
durruti
Posted: Monday, December 29, 2008 9:15:15 AM
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Joined: 12/19/2008
Posts: 468
Location: Sweden
ah, thanks!
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