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sonofliberty
Posted: Monday, April 14, 2008 11:49:04 PM
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This thread could easily get out of hand. Let's try to have a reasonable discussion. We are all adults here(mentally anyway). Let's act like it. If it gets too crazy I will delete it, or maybe lock it.


cueball wrote:
...If there was a doctrine they were following assidiously it was Clauzewitzian. They intended to bring about the victory over the US by defeating its major ally Britain as the immediate "positive object", and then defend with the "negative object" of simply surviving in a defensive posture, until the US was worn down. through attrition, a "negative object."

So afain self defeating. They ignored reality. The usa would not have allowed pearl harbor to go unpunished. Between the sneak attack(yes I know it was a mistaken timing in the delivery of the communique, and I also know that surprise attacks were part of thier heritage and should have been expected) and the beastial treatment of thier captives, the usa would have pursued unrelenting warfare against the japanese until they were defeated soundly. I forget, which admiral said the japanese language would be spoken only in hell? I dont think you understand the anger and rage average americans felt towards the japanese back then. My grandfather was a colonel in the army back then. He told me once that the japanese who were placed in internment camps were put there partially for thier own safety. Hitler might have been able to negotiate a deal with the USA, but not the japanese.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
Anders
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 12:55:06 AM
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sonofliberty wrote:
the japanese who were placed in internment camps were put there partially for thier own safety.

Just like the Jews in Germany... The Germans really didn't like them, you know.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:00:15 AM
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Anders wrote:
Just like the Jews in Germany... The Germans really didn't like them, you know.
I am not defending it. Personally I would have attempted to ferret out any potential spies. However I would not have allowed them to have "sensitive" jobs. Many japanese americans fought with distinction in the european theater. The american government, to my knowledge, never carried out any of the attrocities that the german, soviet, and japanese governments did. I was only attempting to point out the amount of anger felt by americans in those days.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:35:10 AM
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Well, to be honest, I find the 90% mortality rates in the Island campaign to be a little hard to believe. Usually the wounded outnumber the dead. So at the very least I think it has to be said that at the very least Allied soldiers (Autralian, British and American) were carrying out a very agressive "medical triage", against Japanese POW's, not that this was not the practice of the Japanese as well, for the sake of historical accuracy I don't think the Allied soldiers were in a very merciful mood.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:07:11 AM
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cueball wrote:
Well, to be honest, I find the 90% mortality rates in the Island campaign to be a little hard to believe. Usually the wounded outnumber the dead. So at the very least I think it has to be said that at the very least Allied soldiers (Autralian, British and American) were carrying out a very agressive "medical triage", against Japanese POW's, not that this was not the practice of the Japanese as well, for the sake of historical accuracy I don't think the Allied soldiers were in a very merciful mood.
I always put that down to japanese unwillingness to surrender alive.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:33:24 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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On the few occassion where the US army actually used Japanese speaking Americans to translate in the Islands, there was actually a very large surrender rate from what I have read. But most Japanese speaking Americans were in Italy.

Bottom line is 90% mortality rates are far in excess of anything else in the war, anywhere, and the only time you see similar rates are where you have elite corps of SS soldiers, for example, who know that surrender is not a really much of an option.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:35:47 AM
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cueball wrote:
On the few occassion where the US army actually used Japanese speaking Americans to translate in the Islands, there was actually a very large surrender rate from what I have read. But most Japanese speaking Americans were in Italy.
Well lack of communication could have been a big part of thier unwillingness to surrender.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:36:51 AM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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I think they shot them in batches, and had a take no prisoners policy. Basicly just rounded up the strays after everything cooled off.

Quote:
"Oh, we could take more if we wanted to," one of the officers replied. "But our boys don't like to take prisoners.

"It doesn't encourage the rest to surrender when they hear of their buddies being marched out on the flying field and machine-guns turned loose on them."

Although Lindbergh was sympathetic to the Nazis and was suspected of deliberately portraying his fellow countrymen in a very negative light, his allegations are supported by other American diarists, who report that the US marines, in particular, did not take many prisoners. Prof Aldrich also discovered new diaries showing that American generals worried about the abuse of human remains by their troops.




American troops 'murdered Japanese PoWs'


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Anders
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 3:08:03 AM
 Generalfeldmarschall

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For a modern comparison, anyone have the surrender rate from Afghanistan and Iraq?

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 3:54:19 AM
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Quote:
They had been "raped to death" by Japanese soldiers. Then they found a dead American soldier who had stakes driven through each shoulder and his hands cut off. "As we moved away again, one of my corporals said to me: "No more prisoners, turaga[sir]." I agreed with him.
I cannot say that I would not agree with a take no prisoners policy in such a situation.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:11:37 AM
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I do have to wonder if maybe the policy was partially a result of this:
Quote:

The Bataan Death March (also known as The Death March of Bataan) took place in the Philippines in 1942 and was later accounted as a Japanese war crime. The 60-mile (97 km) march occurred after the three-month Battle of Bataan, part of the Battle of the Philippines (1941–42), during World War II. In Japanese, it is known as Batān Shi no Kōshin (バターン死の行進, Batān Shi no Kōshin?), with the same meaning.

The march, involving the forcible transfer of 90,000 to 100,000 American and Filipino prisoners of war[1] captured by the Japanese in the Philippines from the Bataan peninsula to prison camps, was characterized by wide-ranging physical abuse, murder, and resulted in very high fatalities inflicted upon the prisoners and civilians along the route by the armed forces of the Empire of Japan. Beheadings, cut throats and being casually shot were the more common and merciful actions — compared to bayonet stabbings, rapes, guttings (disembowelments), numerous rifle butt beatings and a deliberate refusal to allow the prisoners food or water while keeping them continually marching for nearly a week (for the slowest survivors) in tropical heat. Falling down, unable to continue moving was tantamount to a death sentence, as was any degree of protest or expression of displeasure.


Route of the death march. Section from San Fernando to Capas was by rail.Prisoners were attacked for assisting someone failing due to weakness, or for no apparent reason whatsoever. Strings of Japanese trucks were known to drive over anyone who fell. Riders in vehicles would casually stick out a rifle bayonet and cut a string of throats in the lines of men marching alongside the road. Accounts of being forcibly marched for 5–6 days with no food and a single sip of water are in post war archives including filmed reports.[2] The exact death count has been impossible to determine, but some historians have placed the minimum death toll between six and eleven thousand men; whereas other post war allied reports have tabulated that only 54,000 of the 72,000 prisoners reached their destination— taken together, the figures document a casual killing rate of one in four up to two in seven (25% to 28.5%) of those brutalized by the forcible march. How many died from the brutal experience in delayed effects after reaching the internment camps at the end of the march is also believed to be a high though uncertain number.


I can tell you that troops in the field already dont feel very "charitable" towards thier enemies. If news of that reached them, I doubt you would find much interest in preserving the lives of the troops from that nation.


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:30:29 AM
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Thanks for the save daniel.


"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:14:59 PM
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Well I agree I just don't think anyone was particularly moral.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:35:00 PM
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cueball wrote:
Well I agree I just don't think anyone was particularly moral.
There is not much "morality" in war. War is nasty, dirty, and brutish by definition.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:47:09 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Well, right, but I just assume that everyone was massacring POW's, particularly on the front lines. The Allies were no different, in this respect. I guess it just comes down to what you think is wrong. A lot of people like to think they would be morally superior in those cricumstances, but the fact is that most people even those who opposed execution of prisoners didn't bother to protest, after all your unit is your link to survival, and if members of your units are executing prisoners there are many good reasons not to argue with them.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:17:19 PM
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cueball wrote:
Well, right, but I just assume that everyone was massacring POW's...
Well actually the allies just did not accept the surrender of the enemy troops. They did not torture them, or carry out any pogroms or anything. Technically there were not any "POW's", since they were not taken prisoner. Again, I do not condone the behavior, but I do "understand" it.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
Ederon
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:18:30 PM
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The true "morality" (or humanity) of involved can be judged by what comes afterwards. War reality is out of normal human behavior (i.e. living your life peacefully, satisfying your needs - food, entertainment, relations, etc. - within common rules of society), it's like different world. And people tend to act different in different environments (more or less, depends on individual dispositions). If someone committed what's called war crime, he should be recognized responsible and pay for it, just like when he commits crime in peacetime.
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:26:18 PM
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sonofliberty wrote:
Well actually the allies just did not accept the surrender of the enemy troops. They did not torture them, or carry out any pogroms or anything. Technically there were not any "POW's", since they were not taken prisoner. Again, I do not condone the behavior, but I do "understand" it.


Well, I talked to one old geezer who was on Juno beech and he said they handed over German prisoners to an American unit who then shot them.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
sonofliberty
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:28:42 PM
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cueball wrote:
Well, I talked to one old geezer who was on Juno beech and he said they handed over German prisoners to an American unit who then shot them.
Was this on D-day?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:30:34 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

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Shortly thereafter, in that week. Prisoners are a logistic problem, everyone knows that.

I just don't think there is anything morally superior about US behaviour in the war in this respect. Nor likely the Canadians, either. I don't think the Free French units were taking prisoners nor the Poles. Again, 90% mortality rates in the Island campaigns indicate very agressive triage, because usually the wounded out number the dead by a fair margin.

I would also note, this is nothing like rounding up civilian populations and then exterminating them as a group, as an act of official state policy.

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
cueball
Posted: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 6:13:00 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
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Something about this photo has never sat right with me, for example:

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/guadalcanal/pics/ground/many_Jap_dead_on_beach.jpg


For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
Geofactor
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 3:58:53 AM
 Lieutenant Colonel

One Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership Medal

Joined: 3/12/2007
Posts: 721
Location: North Coast USA
sonofliberty wrote:
I do have to wonder if maybe the policy was partially a result of this:


I can tell you that troops in the field already dont feel very "charitable" towards thier enemies. If news of that reached them, I doubt you would find much interest in preserving the lives of the troops from that nation.

yea....lets all you americans out there buy a jap car!!!.....allied prisoner in jap hands had well over 30 percent death rate....while allies in german hands had around 4 percent death rate.....the japs were(and as far as im concerned still are)heathens with a capitol H!...and lets not forget the burma railroad which had something like 1000 allied prisoner deaths per mile!....Heathens!!!

""The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.".....Thomas Jefferson"
anonymous....we are legion...we dont forgive....we dont forget....expect us...
M&M
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 8:58:36 AM
 General

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Joined: 3/8/2007
Posts: 2,335
Location: Cairo, Egypt.
Lord Ederon wrote:
The true "morality" (or humanity) of involved can be judged by what comes afterwards. War reality is out of normal human behavior (i.e. living your life peacefully, satisfying your needs - food, entertainment, relations, etc. - within common rules of society), it's like different world. And people tend to act different in different environments (more or less, depends on individual dispositions). If someone committed what's called war crime, he should be recognized responsible and pay for it, just like when he commits crime in peacetime.

War crimes are relative though as it depends on which side you're viewing it from, only the "winner" in a war gets to seek justice on the enemy's war criminals. But both sides are usually guilty, albeit with varrying degrees. When your enemy breaks the "acceptable" rules of war, there is little you can do but break them too. War in itself is a crime against humanity, so once you're at war there isn't really much of a high or low moral ground.
Ederon
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:36:10 AM
 Field Major


Joined: 2/28/2007
Posts: 5,949
Location: Heart of Europe
M&M wrote:
War crimes are relative though as it depends on which side you're viewing it from, only the "winner" in a war gets to seek justice on the enemy's war criminals. But both sides are usually guilty, albeit with varying degrees. When your enemy breaks the "acceptable" rules of war, there is little you can do but break them too. War in itself is a crime against humanity, so once you're at war there isn't really much of a high or low moral ground.

It's something similar to evidence acquired illegally. It's not accepted. If you "illegally" film/record someone talking about his crimes, it won't be accepted and said person (who has broken the law) won't be sentenced based on your evidence. But why? Isn't that stupid? Isn't it evidence nonetheless? "My logic" says it'd be right to accept the evidence, even if it was acquired illegally, but make person who did get it this way responsible for breaking the law. Two separate crimes. Two guilty persons.
cueball
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 5:00:11 PM
 Tribunus laticlavius

Forum Supporter Medal 1st ClassOne Year Membership MedalTwo Year Membership MedalInspiring Poster '08 AwardAuthor of 10000th Post

Joined: 11/30/2007
Posts: 2,501
Location: Canaduh
I don't quite understand the parrallel...

For a straighforward copy over zip version go here: Goerings Delay -- NZQS -- 1.3b.rar

The Mod can also be set up with the Jones Generic Mod Enabler and has worked fine in that mode in my tests. This version has everything in it, 1.3beta, JSGME and the East is Red patch, and can be installed straight to your Armageddon 1.2 (ZBLV) folder without disrupting vanilla at all. It has the 1.3beta exe update and JGSME Mod system right in it. Just unzip to your main doomsday folder, copy the contents of the folder, then past into the main folder, then enable the mod using the JSGME system. Once you execute the JSGME it is pretty self-explanatory: EIR NZQS --ARMA 1.3beta complete 1.3b

Small patch from XTPS or NZQS 1.2 to NZQS 1.3b: Goering EIR -- Patch 1.3b

It would be a dangerous folly for the British people to underrate the enduring position in world history which Mussolini will hold; or the amazing qualities of courage, comprehension, self-control and perseverance which he exemplifies.

Sir Winston -- 1937
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