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Anders
Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:21:16 PM
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Vissarion wrote:
am I right to assume there will not be a game tomorrow?
I got the impression it'll go ahead as normal.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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Vissarion
Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:48:03 PM
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Ok, can those who plan to show up tomorrow please speak? I'm not sure if the setup is agreed on or if it will take a lot of time to make.

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zong
Ederon
Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:57:47 PM
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I don't think we are gonna start tomorrow given Schuers and Anders limits plus we did not agree on much till now. But we can do something short, like 39 scenario or dunno, some battlescen.
Anders
Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:52:11 PM
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Oh, I can't start until August 4th, in 2 weeks, or Sunday 3rd.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Vissarion
Posted: Sunday, July 20, 2008 11:59:16 PM
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Ok, then I shan't be attending any game tomorrow. Even though I'm aching for some spirutal awakening in the form of a new abyss game, I suggest we wait 2 weeks so that Anders and Schuer can attend from the start.

boing boom tschak, boing boom tschak
peng
boing boom tschak, boing boom tschak
zong
Anders
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:14:00 AM
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Regariding alliance restriction, how about we add that allied countries can not be ones that start out with less than two countries between them? In addition to the ideology restriction?

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
M&M
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 2:13:31 AM
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Quote:
You withdrew, but only after objections were risen.

Precisely, after I've been made aware it was an exploit I asked vissarion then retreated. The point wasn't to get away with it if nobody objected, like I said I rebased them to bonin islands, I didn't see it being too unrealistic for the TP to encounter an empty island and drop a division on the way. There are plenty of game limitations that people usually work around and isn't considered exploits like when ASW wasn't working or trading provinces to allow a landline for supplies rather than unreliable convoy system. It was a great military opportunity to make a surprise attack during a time where the american alliance was on the defensive, if I had known it was an exploit it would've been pointless to plan & build up air & naval ports for it rather than investing in the pacific.

Quote:
Alternative is alliance limit based on cumulative IC and # of players. That'd make it more fagmented and IMHO more fun

While I agree the static form of alliances proved to be alittle tedious, I'm not sure seperated alliances like china & Libertados or whatever would've done anything more fun. It would've been very likely neighbouring nations would've been engulfed into a long conflict with little results due to the large territory and crappy early troops, this would've effectively cancelled us out from the global game and into regional conflicts I think, so an alliance seemed like the best choice to achieve my plans for world domination Devil . For libertados & USNA, I find it difficult to see how we could've gone for world domination plans while we weren't allied, a schuer-like backstab (Tongue) would've likely happened if either of us committed large troops offshore.
The same applies for ideological alliances, since the ideologies are spread all around the world rather than concentrated blocks like in the cold war, what may be good for one nation won't be the same for the other. If APR for example wants to invade north africa, such plans could be voided by allies if they don't want war with their neighbours in america or asia.

Quote:
Ok, then I shan't be attending any game tomorrow

Same

Quote:
Schuer scenario is different thing. What I propose now is few edits to make the game more interesting, reduce number of units not by altering their costs, but by making IC more scarce because of higher cost of supplies and money IC-wise.

While I undersand the reasoning behind wanting to do these edits, I still remain very guarded towards fooling around with the IC costs and other measures suggested. It just seems like making edits without fully factoring in what those results might be. If I want alot of something, I don't think IC cost is going to stop me. The BB fleet with 3 attachments was super expensive, but I built alot of them to achieve naval superiority. I believe the same would apply for airforce and everything else. Greater cost or less IC might result in less numbers, but I don't see how attacking with 2 divisions instead of 4 will make all the difference against an enemy with the same restriction.
reticent_bassist
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:58:54 AM
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well its a little disappointing that there will be no game tomorrow, but thats ok. i look forward to the next game and also to finishing the mod.
Wishing_Well
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:24:35 AM
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Is this serie still played roughly 'til midnight CET ?
M&M
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:33:28 AM
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we could still meet for a random game I suppose
Ederon
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:00:02 AM
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M&M wrote:
The same applies for ideological alliances, since the ideologies are spread all around the world rather than concentrated blocks like in the cold war, what may be good for one nation won't be the same for the other. If APR for example wants to invade north africa, such plans could be voided by allies if they don't want war with their neighbours in america or asia.

I'm myself not for ideologically restricted alliances. That'd limit just too much. And to your point that your allies might veto some of you plans - ok, then you dump them Big Grin Just b more flexible Wink

Quote:
While I undersand the reasoning behind wanting to do these edits, I still remain very guarded towards fooling around with the IC costs and other measures suggested. It just seems like making edits without fully factoring in what those results might be. If I want alot of something, I don't think IC cost is going to stop me. The BB fleet with 3 attachments was super expensive, but I built alot of them to achieve naval superiority. I believe the same would apply for airforce and everything else. Greater cost or less IC might result in less numbers, but I don't see how attacking with 2 divisions instead of 4 will make all the difference against an enemy with the same restriction.

This is exactly the point. Less units for everyone means less micromanagement, less sluggish game and less problems of this kind overall. The fact it doesn't mess with any prices, just reduce IC available for production, means that there is no difference from vanilla when considering relative unit prices. Summed up - if result is that we'll have 75-80% forces we had before, it'll do the job and will be worth it. All we have to get used to is that we are not able to pump out so much as we'd like to in our perverted minds Tongue

Wishing_Well wrote:
Is this serie still played roughly 'til midnight CET ?

Yes
M&M
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:12:49 AM
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Quote:
This is exactly the point. Less units for everyone means less micromanagement, less sluggish game and less problems of this kind overall.

War is supposed to be a very messy affair Tongue, the micromanagement is part of it Big Grin.
I'm not totally opposed to less units, I get what you mean. What I'm opposed to is changing & tinkering with all the basic things like unit costs and such that the game would feel unfamiliar. This is the biggest blockade to why I haven't played any MP mods, it feels like an entirely different game to me. Reducing the IC per nation could help I guess, but I did enjoy having a great amount of IC to build up a large & expensive army as opposed to a small expensive one or a large cheap one.
Ederon
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 3:22:12 PM
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M&M wrote:
War is supposed to be a very messy affair Tongue, the micromanagement is part of it Big Grin.

Death, chaos and destruction is what makes war a horror. In this game (hoi), excessive micromanagement is what makes it no fun. For me at least. Wink

EDIT: I'd not restrict alliances to the same ideology myself. IMO 2 player rule with IC limit would be just enough to make it enough fun for durable game reaching 50s without anyone being put on side track (as Russia happened to end in 9th game).
Anders
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:39:09 PM
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With just the 'max 2 players' rule, you're bound to get the American superblock again; those factions have no conflicting cores, and the advantage is only too obvious.
But I agree that max 2 players per alliance is a necessary restriction.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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Ederon
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:40:37 PM
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Anders wrote:
With just the 'max 2 players' rule, you're bound to get the American superblock again

Combined with IC restriction, it might work.
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:41:34 PM
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I'll be there. and longing for a game. I'll choose PRRS.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Anders
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:49:59 PM
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But any two countries that annex a third will get pretty much the same amount of IC as the Americans.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Ederon
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:17:34 PM
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I looked at Persia and found out it is one of those countries with least IC and probably one with lowest manpower. So I'll yet see what others pick and either decide based on that (to balance things out) or I'll take Eurosoviets as another alternative.
Anders
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:29:08 PM
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Depending on how we restrain alliances, I'll have either Oceania (Australasia) or African wossnames. And yes, I just can't wait for Geo's reaction to that...

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:42:32 PM
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We should mod the vanilla game should we go with it and not my mod. At least even out Ottoman and Persian IC, and add some MP here and there. Opinions?

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Anders
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:06:02 PM
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No extra MP. There are other things supposed to balance the lack of MP some countries have.
As for IC, I don't know if the Otomans have the same amount of ressources the other counries have, or if it's scaled down to fit it's smaller IC? Every country with 200 Base IC can sustain approximately 205 effective IC from start (once they get convoys going.)

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
Ederon
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 10:21:58 PM
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I don't think there is real need to do such changes. Lack of MP/IC can be balanced out by diplomacy and/or good alliance(s).

@Anders - I think resources are scaled down, but I may be wrong as I did no research regarding this.
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:21:01 PM
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Well, ok then.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Stalins Elite
Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:45:01 PM
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Guys I just kinda quit my job. So I may or may not be on que for the next Monday Madness game. I'll post naturally wethere I can make it or not. SE.

Admiral Kutzenov - The Cold War lives.



Vissarion
Posted: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 4:57:56 PM
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I'm leaning towards Sweden this time.

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