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reticent_bassist
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:12:20 PM
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if we play the mod and implement my land doctrine changes the game might be much more interesting. with 12 additional nations, much smaller IC bases the importance of positioning, grand strategy, individual units and diplomacy will become so much more important. the land doctrine changes will really help give the AI a fighting chance early game. a large reason they are walked over so quickly is because they are going Superior Firepower while we are either going Mobility or Grand Battle Plan. Basically it all comes down to we have around 50-60 Org and morale depending on which paths you choose while they are sitting on 30ish. i would really like to see the AI last longer to create buffer states between the developing human powers that might possibly even last into the 40s, although that is a bit of a stretch...

also, due to the much lower base IC you won't have the same problem with nations becoming un-stoppable juggernauts of IC, even though, overall there is more IC on the map.
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:33:08 PM
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I dislike the idea of land doctrine changes. AI nations will be gobbled up, may it happen in 1938 or 1939, it is irrelevant, imo. It is not a question of if, but when. But let's carry that discussion to the mod thread Smile
Btw, RB, i am only online for another 30 minutes, you better go online Tongue. Please outline any advances you and your mate did in the according thread.

@Anders: i hope i get most of the work done by mid next week, so we can still testplay some things. Tweaking needs to be done with tech teams, only, though. One ederon gets us some leaders, we should be more than ready.

Regarding annexations:
I am sure there will be plenty of AI puppets around by that time. Or the victor can carve up the former enemy's territory, and then let the remaining rump state be played by the corresponding loser. -> like Prussia being Bourbon's overlord.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
M&M
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:40:24 PM
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Gen.Schuermann wrote:
Regarding annexations:
I am sure there will be plenty of AI puppets around by that time. Or the victor can carve up the former enemy's territory, and then let the remaining rump state be played by the corresponding loser. -> like Prussia being Bourbon's overlord.

Yes but my question is if we go ahead with alliance limits, such puppets might cause the breakup of an existing alliance. It would be counter-productive to liberate a portion of your territory to gain a new smaller ally and sacrifice a bigger one. Or certain alliances can become 3-4 man alliances as they gobble up players. Also I think the concept of puppeting an enemy nation and gaining all of its troops and production capacity under your command is an issue.
sonofliberty
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:42:12 PM
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M&M wrote:
Yes but my question is if we go ahead with alliance limits, such puppets might cause the breakup of an existing alliance. It would be counter-productive to liberate a portion of your territory to gain a new smaller ally and sacrifice a bigger one. Or certain alliances can become 3-4 man alliances as they gobble up players. Also I think the concept of puppeting an enemy nation and gaining all of its troops and production capacity under your command is an issue.
I thought the ic limit was for humans? I thought the puppets did not count.

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Ederon
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:00:57 PM
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Every alliance member counts regardless of the fact it is AI or human. Otherwise you'd just release puppets and whole meaning of restriction would be voided.
sonofliberty
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 8:07:39 PM
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Lord Ederon wrote:
Every alliance member counts regardless of the fact it is AI or human. Otherwise you'd just release puppets and whole meaning of restriction would be voided.
If so, then mid to late game alliances will be all but impossible.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

There is a new game on the way Project Blitzkrieg
Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:34:21 PM
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the more i think about it, the more complicated it gets. I think let the people do as they please. Large counter-alliances will form and teach the other's a lesson, and will most likely dissolve after that. To hell with game balance, to hell with uber alliances digging in in the americas!

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Anders
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:43:04 PM
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Could we get a poll on the alliance restrictions?
If we're NOT restricting alliances, the best course would be to implement almost all the edits Ederon posted a while back.
Regarding those, wil you change the fort efficiency to something more between normal and what you proposed, or just drop modifying the efficiency? With forts hideously expensive in the early game (it takes tech to build) and outdated in the later (doctrines, airpower, etc), it does make sense to make it worth the effort to build them.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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Ederon
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:26:18 PM
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We shall vote tomorrow.
Anders
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:40:56 PM
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Also, I'd go with the doctrinal changes, since nobody in his right mind would go for Firepower doctrine when there's Mobility.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

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Gen.Schuermann
Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 11:54:10 PM
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We are moding a good bit of the game already. Will we only change values, or get an entirely new path as well? if the former, is it balanced enough? we need to check. If the latter, does it work at all? I'd like to test a working version beforehand, naturally.

In Soviet Russia, Schuermann defeats YOU!
Anders
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 12:00:54 AM
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The thing to strive for with doctrines is a balance, so that countries with immense manpower will actually get a benefit from going with the "Human Wave" doctrine-equivalent. Don't forget to take component matches into account when designing the tech teams, Schür! It'd be a pain if he manpower-poorest country could only go for "Human Wave"...

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
M&M
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:26:30 AM
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Gen.Schuermann wrote:
To hell with game balance, to hell with uber alliances digging in in the americas!

We weren't the ones constructing impenetrable atlantic fortresses all along the coastline Tongue .

Quote:
Regarding those, wil you change the fort efficiency to something more between normal and what you proposed, or just drop modifying the efficiency? With forts hideously expensive in the early game (it takes tech to build) and outdated in the later (doctrines, airpower, etc), it does make sense to make it worth the effort to build them.

I disagree, if they're cheap everyone will build up his own great china wall. I like that they're expensive in the beginning when most troops are crap anyways, A maginot like fortress takes a very long time & lots of resources to build. Infact I think we should restrict fortification construction to prevent lvl 10 fortresses on islands or coasts & such.
Anders
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:31:45 AM
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M&M wrote:
We weren't the ones constructing impenetrable atlantic fortresses all along the coastline Tongue .
Bah, you could've attacked through Africa like the Asians did.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
M&M
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:33:25 AM
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Anders wrote:
Bah, you could've attacked through Africa like the Asians did.

Um, how do we attack prussia through africa exactly ? Crazy
Geofactor
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:38:41 AM
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btw......im also planning on playing in the monday game.......in case anyone was wondering.........i know what happened last time i failed to post!Mad

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anonymous....we are legion...we dont forgive....we dont forget....expect us...
Anders
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 6:46:38 AM
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Sorry Geo, you posted too late. Now you have to play the Confederates, between two cooperating players in USNA and Libertadores.

"Hvor fattige var de ikke, disse fiskere som levde av havets nåde! De slet sig gjennom livet uten å se sig om til høire eller til venstre. Deres gleder var få, deres bekymringer mange. Men de hadde allikevel et gemyttlig smil til den fremmede, en munter vise og en lun historie. For sånn er de, disse Sørlandets barn."

King of Men wrote:
Anders is correct.

Fivoin wrote:
Yeah, Anders is right.

baronbowden wrote:
I would tend to agree with Anders.

Support Ederon.net via your Amazon purchases!

I joined Ederon.net before it became mainstream
M&M
Posted: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:16:12 AM
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Anders wrote:
Sorry Geo, you posted too late. Now you have to play the Confederates, between two cooperating players in USNA and Libertadores.

hehe LOL . tannu tuva is always free as well
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